Leaking (Fresh) Water Tanks
Date: May 18, 1998 I am interested in information on any problems involving leakage in the fresh water system any one may have. The 38' has freshwater tanks port and starboard under the settees. Every once in a while I end up with a big rush of water coming from the mid section of the boat. There is no sign of any leakage at any through hull fitting and all of the accessable areas of the tanks are dry. I have tried dye in the tanks and have had both clear and >slighty colored water show up in the bilge. I have considered that water may be coming from above deck from rain or washing, pooling somewhere and showing up later. All I know is that the all of a sudden a few gallons of water show up from somewhere! Thanks for any help anyone can give. Date: April 25, 1998 Joel does not indicate if his tanks are plastic or aluminum. My tanks (on a 37foot) are 50 gal aluminum. The bottom is epoxied to prevent galvantic corrosion. Same is true with the Fuel tank. Back to the problem. SImple method is to disconnect all lines into the tanks, one by one and slightly pressurize them. If there is a small leak use soap solution to brush the ouside and it should show up. The reason the leak maybe sporatic is that it opens and closes when the tank is flexed. I assume you have already determined that the leak is freah water? The reason I asked; I had a hose leak that would only show up if the hose was flexed or put under deadhead pressure. Any way that should find the leak. I know another Endeavour boat where the tanks were not epoxied, the owner had to replace his tanks. If you don't know if your tanks are epoxied, simply look down the sides, you should be able to see where it starts and stops. Date: April 27, 1998 No ideas's on Joel's problem, but ... On our '85 E42, we have been 'fighting' a water problem since we bought the boat back in '94. There is a leak in the pressurized system somewhere. I have checked all of the fittings, ok, all of the visable line, ok, new pump, new water heater, air supply line is free of obstruction. Still the lines are loosing pressure causing the pump to come on and stay on until the line is blead again. Any idea's short of replacing all of the water supply lines? Date: June 29, 1998 Friends: Thank you for the help with the foot pump under the sink. I have now determined that it is a fresh water pump, which apparently does not function. I have a 42 Endeavour 1986. I now have a larger more difficult problem...I hope there are some answers. My water tanks keep draining. I think it happens when I am under way and the water pump is on....The water heater seems to keep releasing water which in turn pumps more in to the water heater, releasing more and the cycle continues untill my tank is dry. Is there a fix for the water tank? Is there an adjustment? Thank you Date: June 30, 1998 Daryl -- What do you mean by the heater keeps releasing water? Where is it releasing the water? Be a little more specific and I might can help. Thanks Date: June 30, 1998 Jim. The hot water heater has a hose that exits off the heater and leads to the bilge. i expect that this is part of the relief system. The water is seen to be coming from this hose. Can my pressure relief valve be in need of replacement??? Date: June 30, 1998 Hello Again, I'll offer my suggestions for what they are worth: First.....fill the tanks, turn the pump and see if the tank level goes down. If not the tank(s) are not leaking. Thats good news! Second......If you suspect the water heater is leaking disconnect the hose to the inlet and plug it and see if the tank level goes down after you turn the pumps on. If they don't go down you'll know that the problem is somewhere in the hot water heater or hot water lines....If the tank level does go down you'll know the problem is somewhere in the cold water system downstream from the pump (If there was a leak between the tank and the pump then the pump would probably draw air and not prime). Next...If the tank level did not go down after you pluged the hose to the hot water heater inlet....reconnect the hose to the hot water tank inlet and plug the outlet from the hot water tank....now with the pump running if the tank level goes down you know the problem is in the hot water heater BUY AND INSTALL A NEW HOT WATER HEATER....If the tank level does not go down then you know you have a leak somewhere in the hot water lines.. Good luck Date: July 9, 1998 Is the relief valve the cause. It could be lifting due to the heat from the engine. Simple replacement, Screws in and out like a normal water heater. Date: July 14, 1998 This is a fresh water foot pump. You may have a blockage in the water line to the pump. Date: October 3, 1998 In response to the water pressure and pump problems i want to relate the similar problems and the solution i found for island time. The bladder tank for the pressureized system in our boat is inside the motor compartment wall placed higher than the pump. as water is used up and one tank is emptied the pump continues to pump but only air and it becomes trapped in the loop. after switching tanks i found that by loosening the line connections air would escape and the pump would then kick in. I placed a releif valve in the exit line from the pum and now all i have to do is let some air ou and we have pressure again.
Date: April 20, 1999 I have a 1984 Endeavour 40 (E40). I purchased the boat in September of 1998. It was purchased locally and the previous owner is available. He owned her for 6 years, and the he purchased it from the original owner. I have used the boat for the last several months, pending hauling her for a number of re-fittings. I pulled the mast and replaced all standing rigging, painted the spars, re-wired. I replaced all through hull fittings and valves. I was in the process of giving her a bottom job, when I found a blister, in the keel, that began to weep after being ground out. The weeping could not be stopped, and the substance appeared to be fresh water. I drilled a hole in the keel, allowing a about 8 ounces of water to flow out. Even after the application of heat lamps etc., the water continued to seep out of the hole. I then cut a larger hole with a hole cutter, and found that there was foam in the keel, around the tanks, and the foam was saturated with water. I know that one of my water tanks and my fuel tank were located in the keel. However, in my boat, the tops of the tanks have been glassed over, making the top of the tank my bilge area. I decided that my water was leaking and that it had to be pulled. I hoisted it out by with a come-along placed in the companion way. It was difficult to get out due to the foam. The foam was saturated, and the tank had several rotted through holes. I had to cut the tank into three pieces to remove it from the boat. By removing the remaining foam from the keel, I exposed the forward face of my fuel tank. The tank runs aft under the engine compartment. I found that the foam surrounded my fuel tank as well, and it to was saturated with water. The exposed area of the tank showed significant corrosion, and at least one hole was evident. The fuel tank had to come out as well. The marina personnel recommended that I pull the engine and take the tank up and out through the boat. This did seem a viable solution to me, so I carefully measured the tank location using through hull fittings as reference points. I then outlined the tank location on the outside of the keel. I set my circular to a 30 degree angle, at a depth that guessed to be correct, and proceeded to cut a hole in the side of my keel. The keel piece came away easily exposing the foam that had been injected in next to the tank. I removed the foam and found that the tank had been seated into the bottom of the keel with resin. The tank would never have come out by pulling it up. I had to hand chisel the resin from the exposed side of the tank. After the resin was removed, I attached a come-along, hanging the companion way, to the front of the tank and applied as much tension as I could. I then went outside and drove pry bars under the exposed side of the tank. This combined with the tension caused the tank to begin to pull away from the bottom of the keel. I had not made my hole quite large enough to accommodate the entire tank, so I had to cut the tank in two about a quarter of the way back from the front. this allowed the forward piece to be pushed forward into the area where the water tank had been located. With this space the aft portion of the tank could be moved forward enough to be rotated and come out of the boat. Then the front portion was pulled back and removed as well. I then chiseled out the remaining resin and began grinding down the edges of the opening and the piece that was removed. Since I must fiberglass the inside of the keel before I can place a tank in the keel, I have designed a two-tank replacement system. Each tank is of sufficient size to be lowered into the keel in the area where the water tank was located, and then pushed back into the area under the engine compartment. From the engine compartment, I plan to reach down and connect the tanks with hoses. In addition, I plan to leave space between the tanks so that I can stand down in the keel when in the engine compartment. This will give me stand-up headroom in the engine area. I measured the tanks, and then made models of them using small wood molding material and a hot glue gun. These models were very important because they showed me whether or not the tanks could make the trip down through the companion way, into the hole left by the water tank, and then back into the keel. The exercise resulted in several measurement changes. I now have the tanks on order. I plan to leave the opening in my keel until I receive the tanks, I will again go through the exercise of placing in position, just as if the keel were closed. The opening will give me the opportunity to see what is going on the keel as I attempt to position the tanks from above. Once I am confident all will fit, I will repair the keel. I will up date you as the project progresses. Date: June 1, 1999 We are trying to solve the question of water appearing in the bilge to a point of 6 or so inches deep (on our E42). We are not sure where it is coming from. We have corrected some leaks in the faucets of the forward head and believe that if the water tanks are overfilled, they somehow drain out and into the bilge. Thanks for the site and we will be in touch again! We learn a lot. Date: June 7, 1999 I can't comment on your holding tank or sump questions, but I have a comment regarding the water in the bilge. I found that I was getting water in the bilge on our 42 when on a stbd tack. I finally found a break in the hose that drains the aft port locker. When heeled on a stbd tack, the throughhull was under water sufficiently so that water was leaking through the break in the hose into the hull then draining forward under the galley floor and into the bilge. Accessibility to the hose is not good. It took some doing to change it. This may not be your problem, but those hoses are worth a check from time to time. Date: July 25, 1999 I had watched my fresh water holding systems consume nearly all of my water more than once. Then I woke up one night (this is where I do my best work). The blasted Pressure Relief Valve on the water heater. I noticed that I only found a great deal of water in the bilge when the engine was running. I have replaced this PRV and since then the water situation has been under control SO back to bed I go and work on something else. Date: July 26, 1999 A couple of questions.. Has any one removed the 200gl and 153 gl tank from an E-43. If you have can you provide info on it... Date: August 26, 1999 island time is an E42 1987 and has always had an intermittent fresh water supply problem especially when we traveled. We always had to coax the pump to pick up the fresh water and pump to its regular pressure. after 3 years we found the culprit, the hand pump at the galley sink!!! it allowed air to pass backward toward the pump and since removed (we never did use this pump) has been perfect for those of you with a similar problem i recommend you check this out. Date: October 20, 1999 Hi Paul, Date: November 10, 1999 I have found that my water tank, aluminum, is corroded badly on the inside...Made by Florida Marine Tanks in Hialeah...they say a new one in aluminum is about $750, in stainless about $1000. So I called Gougeon Bros., and asked about repairing with West Epoxy...seems I can sand the inside of the tank, which will mean adding 2 more cleanout ports, (I will use those plastic screwout deck plates) etch it with acid, and pour in West Epoxy, slosh it around, and it will fill in all the holes and essentially resurface the inside of the tank. As epoxy isn't water soluble, it will probably be safer than drinking aluminized water, too. Anybody ever try this??? Date: November 10, 1999 Oh yes the water tanks.... Careful, these things have a series of baffles inside to control the movement. What I have done on a similar tank was to use Marine-Tex. That has been about five years ago, and still holding. The repair took place from the exterior of the tank so no plates and the such. Good Luck Date: November 10, 1999 That is a hit and miss repair .There is no guarrenty that the epoxy wii get in all the right places .If you are pulling the tank out why not sand blast it and completely encapsulate it in epoxy resin and fiberglass unidirectional cloth? Makes a good cheap repair! Acid clean and alodine . Double layer corners and edges... Date: November 10, 1999 Hi Mike; I had to cut two additional openings in mine because there were two bafffles, and I could not access the center part of the tank. I used a putty knife & sand paper to get the junk off...it was very bad, and some of the corrosion went pretty deep. The walls on the tanks are not very thick. I did it using a shop vac, and did not take out the tank. I think it would have been much better with the tank out. I like your epoxy idea, and think it will be better than the aluminum. I have since replace the tank, when I took it out, I found the intake hose pipe to be very badly corroded, and there was corrosion backed up in the hose about 5". May be something to look at while your doing yours. Good luck Date: November 12, 1999 I had the same problem with my Endeavour 37...a 100 gallon water tank that became self draining due to pin hole leaks in the welds after 20 seasons. $750.00 sounds exhorbitant. We were able to replace ours with a new aluminum tank for $500.00. If you're interested, send me an e-mail and I'll let you know who we used. We are happy with the new tank. Date: November 12, 1999 Hey Capt Mike, Date: November 18, 1999 Fixing Water Tank on E-37 After discovering my water tank, aluminum, was badly corroded on the inside, I called Florida Tanks and was told that the tank could be replaced with another aluminum one for $750, or stainless for $1000, plus the cost of shipping it (I am in Puerto Rico)...So I removed the tank from the boat, and found that it had over 20 holes in it, and the only thing keeping the water in was the corrosion! There were about 15 more places that had gotten so thin they could be pushed through with any sharp object. Because the tank originally was built with 2 baffles and only one cleanout, there were 2 sections that were inaccessable. I cut 2 more holes in the top of the tank and added access plates, using the screwout plastic ones to allow quick and easy access, even though I anticipate they will leak a little. At least they require no tools to remove or replace and one does not have to figure out how the holes line up! After consulting with Gougeon Bros, the makers of West Epoxy, I decided to try to repair the tank. I dug out all the corrosion I could and patched the holes with MarineTex from both sides, as well as filling in the deepest craters both inside and out. Then I sanded the tank down completely, and etched the surface with phosphoric acid (OSPHO), and applied 3 coats of West epoxy resin to both inside and outside. As a final finish I painted the outside of the tank with white RustOleum paint. Endeavour had originally installed the tank just lying on the bilge floor, and part of the corrosion seemed to be due to the trapping of water and salt underneath it. I cut a cheap garden hose into 6-foot lengths and laid four of them lengthwise in the bilge after thoroughly cleaning it, and placed the rebuilt tank on top of these strips, which will allow better drainage. I finally scrubbed the inside of the tank with a good commercial cleanser, and rinsed it out with water and baking soda. It now seems to be fine, and is holding water nicely and not polluting it with aluminum. I think it will be possible to get many more years of service from this tank, and the whole project cost less than $100. Date: November 6, 2000 For those of you with E-37's who want to replace your old aluminum water tank, The Tank Depot in Cranston Rhode, Island (401) 941-8151 makes a great replacement out of 1/2" thick HDP plastic, hot nitrogen welded, clean-out and all fittings, for under $500...they already have the measurements on file and can air-freight them anywhere...I just got one made for a customer of mine, and it's a gorgeous job...even the air freight to Puerto Rico was inexpensive...unfortunately you can't make a tank for fuel out of HDP, but it makes a super water tank. Date: September 26, 2000 Paul, I was wondering if anyone out there has had experience in changing out the fuel tank or the water tank on an Endeavour 43. Thanks for any information you can come up with. Date: September 27, 2000 We replaced our tanks before starting out from San Diego. We've seen several variations at replacement tanks, but felt we wanted tanks that basically fit the same way. However, it is not possible to replace them like for like because they will not fit. What we did was remove the tanks by raising each into the cabin and with a sawzall, cutting them into 4 components. We found the largest tanks for replacement would be possible by making a pair of saddle tanks for fuel and water. We built a bed out of epoxy impregnated two by fours with epoxy impregnated ply on top. This reduced the tank height by 4.25 inches. We then had the tank "man" use the old cut tanks which we reassembled as his model. We adjusted the length so that the water became only 124 gal and the fuel became 184 gal. We used stainless for the water and a high marine grade aluminum for the diesel. Large clean outs on top of each of the four tanks and they bolt together at the top. We placed a 1/4 inch sheet of ply between them to eliminate any chance of chafe. Then we blocked them into place. We plumbed each separate using its own y-valve arrangement. The fuel tanks have spare plugs for possible use for a generator and we use them for dip sticks to accurately measure. In the last 9000 miles of ocean use there has been no movement, no leakage, no problems. Good luck. Date: October 7, 2000 Endeavour Owners,
Date: December 19, 2000 I would like to obtain more information on replacing the water tank on my E-37. I remember reading about someone having one made out of 1/2 inch plastic. If anyone could help me obtain this info, I'd be grateful. Date: January 19, 2001 Hi Dave! The company is The Tank Depot, 530 Wellington Ave., Cranston, RI... I don't have the phone # here but I am sure Information has it...ask for Robin Jones and tell him I sent ya!...they charged me about $475 for the tank, and it cost about $125 to air freight it to me here in Puerto Rico...if you are on the mainland it will be a lot less for freight, I'm sure...anyway, it's a SUPER tank, and I am sure will outlast the boat...and doesn't contaminate the water with aluminum! Hope this helps! Date: January 19, 2001 Hello Dave, The message you want was posted about the same time and it was something like the "Todd" corp ( a large firm) which makes tanks which are sold by IE West Marine & Boat US , but would do custom work. I believe he said something about $600 plus. For all I know capnmike was the guy who purchased the tank. Date: January 18, 2001 We had a flexible tank made by Vetus. This allowed us to use the total available space. We added a bulkhead between fuel and water tank and lined the total space including the bottom of floor boards with outdoor carpet. The only disadvantage: There are no gauges for flexible tanks. So we have to feel, when the bladder is full and look when it is low. We also installed a flexible fuel tank, which also works fine. Date: October 31, 2001 I have a 1983 E40 which I purchased from the original owner in 1997. At the beginning of the 1998 season I discovered all my aluminum tanks both water and fuel were corroded and leaking. The boatyard replaced the tanks with fiberglass tanks they built up on site and installed them. This past summer, 2001, a friend told me he didn't think the fiberglass tanks were good for potable water because of the resin in the fiberglass. Others have told me fiberglass water tanks are ok if they've been flushed out. I'm in hopes that the latter is true so I don't have to go through that painful and expensive experience again. Does anyone have any experience in this area? Date: November 2, 2001 Bill, Date: November 2, 2001 Paul, BTW, your problem is common. I didn't build new glass tanks, just sealed the old ones with a layer of glass. No problems thus far. Date: November 3, 2001 Bill, we have a 78 E32 whose water tank seems to be of fiberglass. The only concern we have ever heard of relates more to taste than toxicity-the glass seems to impart an odd taste to the water. We counter that with a bit of chlorine bleach (Clorox) when we fill the tank. We use the tank water for cooking and dishwashing primarily, and use bottled water and seltzer for drinking. On those occaissions when we drink from the tank or brush our teeth, we've noticed no problems. Date: November 6, 2001 My 1976 E-32 has fiberglass water tanks. We've had the boat for about 8 years now and I haven't noticed fiberglass strands sticking thru any parts of my body. I sure hope there is no problem with fiberglass tanks. By the way, the water side of the tanks are gel coat covered. There are a couple of cracks in the gel coat, but nothing real bad. Date: August 29, 2002 I replaced the water tank on our Endeavour 37 with a stainless steel duplicate. We overbuilt it and followed the guidelines in Nigel Calders book. Finding a good welder is a must. We noticed that the fittings on the original tank were copper. This may be the cause of the corrosion we had. If you're looking for more replacement solutions, look at the discussions for other size boats.
From: Joel Fryer joel_fryer@jefryer.com
From: Ed Yusis yusise@aol.com
From: Doug Kessler doooouglus@aol.com
From: Daryl Di Dio ddidio@email.msn.com
From: Jim Woodard jwoodar@ibm.net
From: Daryl Di Dio ddidio@email.msn.com
From: mobetah@bellsouth.net
From: Ed Yusis yusise@aol.com
From: Bruce & Mona Bonbright Bdb2@aol.com
From: Bud Berry ISLAND TM@aol.com
From: Tom Powers TomPowers@sunnuclear.com
From: Donna M. Cass bacchus42@earthlink.net
From: Ed Hamilyon ehamiltn@bright.net
From: Luther Carrier capcarrier@aol.com
From: Adolph Weidanz weidanza@subasenlon.com
From: Bud & Diana Berry ISLAND TM@aol.com
From: Henry Gild henry@gezernet.co.il
Just in case any one needs to know, I have taken out my old aluminium 40 gallon water tank and replaced it with a stainless steel one at a cost of slightly more than the rubberised 20 gallon water tank. This was for an E33.
From: Mike Miller capnmike_s@yahoo.com
From: Luther Carrier capcarrier@aol.com
From: Ed Piriczky sail-sugar@webtv.net
From: Ed Phillips EPhil49932@aol.com
I did something similar on my 37 for the same reasons. We have corresponded before. We have almost identical boats, so the tanks are probley the same. Mine were made in Florida as well, and I think by the same company.
From: John Witanowski slipf18@atl.mindspring.com
From: Dean Beckman dhbeckman@aol.com
I repaired my corroded fuel tank on my E32 with west system epoxy and it has held up very well. I used On/ Off bottom cleaner as an acid for cleaning, etching and preping the aluminum. The On and Off rinses off well with water and really leaves a great surface for the epoxy to stick to.
From: Mike Miller capnmike_s@yahoo.com
From: Mike Miller capnmike_s@yahoo.com
From: Don Pothier donpothier@yahoo.com
I'm been an Endeavour 43 owner since 1990, moved aboard in 1993, and my wife and I spent 6 years cruising between Puerto Rico to Trinidad and Venezuela. We are now settling down in Florida's Treasure coast.
From: Don Freeman DNFSirius@aol.com
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
One of the more common or popular topics is that of replacing fuel, water, and holding tanks. In the October 2000 issue of SAIL Magazine there is a very good article about the causes of their deterioration, preventitive measures, the best materials for their uses, how they're manufactured, etc. There is also a list of about 12 manufacturers and the types of tanks they specialize in making. I highly recommend reading it if you're considering a replacement.
From: Dave Jarnot Sujohom@aol.com
From: Mike Miller capnmike@coqui.net
I'm the guy who wrote about the water tank. They are made of 1/2" thick hot-nitrogen-welded HDPE, complete with internal baffles, clean-out and threaded fill/draw inlets...the company does a magnificent job. As I have an E-37 also (Seagull, Hull #353) they already have the measurements and layout of the inlets on file...The only thing you have to add is a guage, if you want one.
From: Carl Hibbard Chgypsy@aol.com
You could contact ---- capnmike@coqui.net ---- He had correspondence about repairing your aluminum tank, with fiberglass. His entire item was posted under Endvr32 discuss...Leak water tank 11-18-99
From: Wolfgang harms Wolfgang@pioneer-research.com
From: Bill Smith BillGerie@aol.com
From: Tom Gilbert TGil95746@aol.com
I am in the process of repairing my fiberglass tank under my Vee berth in my 1980 E32. It has gel coat and is original, although someone got in there a while back and tried to put another surface sealant inside the tank. It is now peeling off. The glass and coated tank is fine for potable water, but the blush from the resins and gelcoats must be flushed out of the system. It's more a matter of time than quantity of water, and numerous flushings will be necessary. Nonetheless, in your sized boat, I'd highly recommend a carbon activated, silver coated water filter for removing color, taste, and smell. These are sold at home improvement (Orange roofed) stores, as well as your favorite local plumber. You'll need the silver coated filter to stop the mildew growth inside the filter. Change it out often, and you'll be in business.
From: Mark Mineo chokingonthesplinters@yahoo.com
IMHO your friend is off the mark. Plenty of people use fiberglass tanks for potable water. If it were me, I'd want to ensure that they were built with epoxy vice polyester resin, of course - the former being impervious to water, the latter subject to osmotic blistering. But I don't believe that the quality of your water is in any way compromised - neither does your boatyard, or else they wouldn't want to risk the liability.
From: Liz and Pete lizandpete@myexcel.com
From: Jim McMordie jim.mcmordie@marconi.com
From: Allan Jones Ajonesanc@cs.com
