E40 Water Tank Replacement
Date: September 9, 2002
From: Ed Prough catch22pro@pocketmail.com
We have an Endeavour 40, fuel tank just replaced and now we have the aft water tank leaking. Would like to have any input on replacing or repairing that anyone has done ASAP. Thanks for all your help.
Date: September 11, 2002
From: Frederick VerPlanck fastfredv@hotmail.com
Ed,
Hmmmmm...where do I start. When you replaced the fuel tank did you take it out through the main salon or through the side of the keel (as we did)? If through the cabin, you've already had to tear up the cabin sole once. It's time to do it again. :<(
The original aft water tank holds about 75 Gals. It's a "T" section tank, the top part extends to the sides where the settees end. The bottom part pf the "T" extends down to the bottom of the keel cavity. We took ours out when we had the keel side open. Replacement required tearing up the beautiful Teak and Holly sole the dpo put in (and EPOXIED in place !). Once it's lifted clear, you may have to cut it into pieces to get it out the main hatch. We replaced both our water tanks with white poly-something-or-other plastic. We had already extended our fuel tank forward to occupy the entire keel cavity It's now about 100gal cap'y) , so the new aft water tank is about 30 gal snaller than the old one. Not a problem for us...we have a water maker. It sits over the forward part of the new (fiberglass) fuel tank...both water tanks easily serviced by removing the cabin sole which is now affixed to the stringers with s/s machine screws and T nuts. I only wish I'd "bitten the bullet" sooner.
More details and photos available upon request. good luck and best regards.
Date: September 30, 2002
From: Anita or Stephen Leed sdleed@worldnet.att.net
I plan to remove aft water tank and fibglass in with epoxy coating to make a tank in the keel, doing the same with fuel tank after removing engine. Is the forward water tank a problem also or is there an opening below that tank?
Date: October 1, 2002
From: John Regina JREPULSE@aol.com
Hi Paul
I have been through this drill with my E-40. I removed my fuel tank and had Florida Marine Tanks, the original manufacturer make me a new one to slightly different dimensions. As you know there is no way to keep the bottom of the keel where the fuel tank sits dry. In the original design the fuel tank sits between two hard runners at the bottom of the keel so I made the new tank wider and it now sits on top of the runners and I have a diaphragm bilge bump with a hose that runs strait to the bottom. It was hard work removing the fuel tank but I managed to do it without removing the engine or cutting it out of the side of the keel. The 79 gallon water tank I lifted out and repaired all the pitting and a few pin hole's with marine-tex metal, painted it and put it back in. The forward 52 gallon water is just one large tank and has no opening on the bottom. It cannot be removed from the boat as you can't get it out the hatch. I had another made but in two halves in the same basic design as the original one. I had to cut the original tank in half in side the boat in order to remove it. As you will probably agree the worst design feature in the E-40 is the keel-bilge-tank arrangement. I believe I minimized its short comings and any future problems. Oh one other thing If you fiberglass in a fuel and water tank, making it part of the structure of the boat, and you somehow hole the boat in that area you will likely sink the boat. The glass in the keel where the tanks go is very thin. The solid metal tanks in the keel adds strength and will keep the boat afloat if you hole the keel in that area. If you would like to call and talk about this my number is 904-221-4810.
Date: October 2, 2002
From: Ed Prough catch22pro@pocketmail.com
Just 2 months ago we had a new aluminum tank made for our E40 and still have the mock-up that was made out of wood if some one is interested in it. Catch 22
Date: October 5, 2002
From: Jim Parks RIPTYD97@aol.com
We have three E40s in the Biloxi/Gulfport/ area and none have had watertank problems other than cleaning. I did remove the sole of the main cabin to put in wiring etc and looked at the main 93 gal tank. It is a massive tank, approx 4' x 6' x 10" high, and would be impossible to get out or replace in one piece. Because of all the tank problems discussed in Endeavour www, we owners have discussed it. My idea, if I had a problem of leaking woud be to take the aluminum tank out in peices, and replace it with several S Steel or plastic tanks about 4 feet long and 18 inches wide by 10 inched high. The tanks would all be joined by hoses and a common filler. No need for baffles. The smaller tanks would fit in thru the hatchway.
The E40 in Biloxi, FLIPPER, has 2 heavy plastic tanks instead of the one massive tank (still to big to get out the hatchway) if they leak. The keel tank is also heavy plastic. IT MUST HAVE BEEN A SPECIAL FACTORY ORDER.
Date: March 29, 2005
From: Larry Annen lannen@verizon.net
Hi Paul,
I’ve got an E-40 with leaky water tanks. Both tanks have cracks in the upper seams, which are near impossible to reach without taking the deck apart. I’m wondering if any ‘inserts’,‘bladders’, or spray-on internal coatings exist for this type of tank, or will they need to be replaced.
If replacement is the only option, does anyone know who the supplier would be, and does anyone have any experience replacing them. Thanks.
Date: March 31, 2005
From: Robert Helms robert@helms.ws
Hello Paul and Larry,
I recently removed the water tanks from my E-40. I can tell you now there is no way to get them through the companionway. You would have to destroy them to get them out. They can be gotten to and lifted out for cleaning, re-plumbing, and such. It is a dirty job too. I hope this is helpful. Good Luck.
Date: March 31, 2005
From: Michael Gendel mgendel@worldnet.att.net
Larry
I have a 42. Many of us have replaced tanks usually in conjunction with taking the boat apart to replace the rotten fuel tank in keel. If you have to go into the keel, consider replacing the fuel tank if you have one inbedded in closed cell foam there.
There is no "supplier." Make a drawing of what you need, and shop it around at machine shops. Not sure where you are, but I can tell you one place not to go in New Jersey, over the phone not email.
I presume your tank is under the M.S. floor and one in the keel? There is no magic spray that I know about. Some people have used bladders, some have turned the keel itself into a tank, some have made up F.G. Myself, I stuck w/ SS. The one in the keel. I didnot need to replace the belly tank, but I know of folks who did, even tho it was ok. They figured if the boat was apart replace it. You have to cut the ribs and maybe stringers, then reglass them. I put them together w/ steel plates and 8 bolts to make future disassembly easy.
The limit on size is the companion way. The belly tank must be cut to get out. You will replace w/ two tanks.
The keel tanks are a b.#[&7 to get out. Is your keel water tank under the engine or in the fwd part of the keel? Cheers.
Date: April 1, 2005
From: David Meuche starstream@verizon.net
Larry,
I have an E-40 as well but have never had to replace the water tanks. The access to them is easy enough. Complete access requires removing only the section of sole immediately forward of the companion way/engine compartment. You just need to remove the bungs in it, unscrew the wood screws and then pry that section up from the aft side.
I have a neighbor who has had plastic water tanks fabricated by a company here in St. Petersburg, FL. That company is: Southern Industrial Supply, 2558 28th Avenue North, St. Petersburg, FL Phone 727 323-1300. Best of luck.
Date: April 1, 2005
From: Ron Parker golfournut@yahoo.com
Hi Larry, We have a 81' E-40 with poly tanks. We had to replace the aluminum fuel tank with a custom fiberglass tank. In order to do that, we had to remove the aft keel poly tank and cut the stringer at the base of the companion way. we have all the original Endeavour books IE... electrical, plumbing schematics, spec book, Perkins etc... In the spec book it says the floor is glued down. Ours was not. Just four screw per panel. Remove the bungs, remove the screws, lift the aft most panel first being careful not to scratch the two support poles. It will be a tight fit, but should just fit. Then lift the forward one. I used a "Wonder Bar" to pry with. I removed both tanks at the time for cleaning. Can't get them out of the boat though. To big.
I know of another fella that has a 84' E-40 that had replaced his aluminum tanks with custom fiberglass tanks. The same person that did our fuel tank did his water tanks. He the the water tanks into two pieces to remove them from the boat. The new takes were made in pieces also the glassed together once inside the boat. The fellas name that did the is Glenn Kingham 281-827-5250. I think he also did his fuel tank. Hope this helps.
Date: April 1, 2005
From: Sean Saslo Lumpee555@aol.com
Hello Everyone,
When Janet saw the problem you were posting, she immediately referred you to me. Intrepid, the 1986 E51 we have, had similar problems, first with the water tanks, then this year, the fuel tanks. All totalled there were 4 water/2 fuel, and it would have meant ripping the main salon deck and peripheral cabinetry completely out. Unfortunately for the Boat yards, who were licking their chops, I have made a career in the construction industry, and was completely familiar with a product called Sani-Tread,and their product Permaflex. While the applications vary slightly, the product is a pefect solution. the water tanks are flawlessly lined, and now the diesel tanks are as well. It is a truly remarkable solution, and the best part is the PRICE.... It's a lot of work, but it can be rolled, sprayed, brushed...and it can be delivered right to your door. the hard part is the prep...cutting out the baffles, then reinstalling them later. but you'll save a ton of money, and never worry about them again. Best of luck!
Date: April 1, 2005
From: Larry Annen lannen@verizon.net
Thanks for the information, leads and phone numbers. I didn’t realize that the sole could be removed like that. I envisioned lots of cutting and sawing and hacking.
The tanks are leaking on the upper seams, original welds. By popping up the tanks I’ll get access to the seams. I can fix them at that point as I’ll be able to reach the seams then. I’m thinking epoxy…
Maybe some day some smart guy will invent some kind of spray can full of water tank sealant that can be easily sprayed on the inside seams and reseal the tank. Until then I guess we all do it the hard way!
Many thanks for taking time to help me out.
Date: April 1, 2005
From: Tom Gilbert Tgilbert123@aol.com
Ohhhhhhh Boy, welcome to the Endeavour problem tank club.
I bought my E 42 knowing there was a problem. All my tanks leaked. (I love the 42) I found only one solution. Buy a Sawzall. Remove them all, and replace them all. That said, it's a job that takes commitment.
Remove the table and main salon and galley floors and set them aside for a winter to sand and polyurethane/varnish them. Remove the main salon sub floors and support structure. You'll use new plywood and 2X4's when you rebuild, so buy some and polyurethane it a few coats, all sides, prior to re installation. Use the old pieces for templates. The under floor tank gets cut in two to get it out of the boat. Save it for later. The fuel tank comes out, since it will leak very soon anyway. The aft water tank is a B*****h, but it will leak soon too, so take it out. Chip out all epoxy that was around the tank bottoms, holding them in. You may have to remove the galley sink or compressor if they are above the tanks. The bilge pick up is useless, so plan on redesigning that too. Take all three tanks to your friendly boat tank welder, and use them for templates, or draw exactly what you want for replacements. The forward tank will have to be made into two tanks to fit back in the boat. Plan on replumbing them. I used aluminum for all the tanks. I left a chase in between the two forward tanks for future wiring to the bow.
Now, here's how I solved the main problem....Tanks that sit in water.
Use neoprene feet on the reinstallation. I built up a 3 inch ledge lengthwise on both sides of the bilge bottom that the new fuel and aft water tank sits on. I used expanding foam on the sides and glassed them back in place, but they are a bit shorter, and the glass is not continuous, so water can run down the bilge sides into the bottom, under the tanks. I made the tanks a total of 4 inches shorter lengthwise, so my bilge pickup is now in between them, on the bottom of the boat, just under the galley sink cabinet. Plan on accessing it occasionally. I built and bent a new aluminum bar that holds the float switch and Rule 350 gph pump in the bottom. I have a 3000gph pump on the bar at tank top height, as an emergency/panic pump. It's wired to the starting battery. It also has a separate discharge. The forward tanks were easy. I just foamed and glassed them in and plumbed a selector valve at their discharges. Then there's the quantity gauges to be wired, and the final plumbing and fittings to be connected. I added a generator pickup in the fuel tank. The genset will eventually sit over the aft water tank, under the galley sink. There's more, but you've probably fainted by now, anyway. I have pictures, too. Good luck.
Date: April 1, 2005
From: Wolfgang Harms Wolfgang@pioneer-research.com
When the aluminum diesel and water tanks had to be replaced due to corrosion at the bottom, they had to be cut apart in the boat. New tanks of the same size would not fit, we did not want less volume by fitting smaller tanks.
So we ordered custom-made bladders from Vetus, who had them made in Holland. This is a high-quality product and it costs less than new aluminum tanks. (The lowest cost is to buy off-the shelf or standard sizes, but they will not fit).
For bladders you need to measure the space exactly. Then you have to put carpeting in the space without any nails or screws or sharp objects. Putting in and connecting the bladder is easy. A problem is that you have no gauge, so I watch the height of the tank. I also have a measuring tape with gallons marked hanging above the Diesel tank, but this is not exact.
Date: April 1, 2005
From: Bill Smith billgerie@aol.com
Larry,
I have a 1983 E40 which I purchased in 1997. A year later in the spring I noticed leakage on the bottom of the keel around a crack. Further investigation revealed that all three water tanks and both fuel tanks had developed leaks around the welded seams mostly on the bottom of the aluminum tanks. I later found out that this was not all that unusual for the E40 after about 15-18 years. It seems the welds on the aluminum tanks tend to start leaks after this time due to sitting down in the bilge many times in some water.
The tanks were too far gone to be repaired so they had to be removed from the boat. Due to the construction of the boat, there were only two choices for the removal of the tanks. One was to disassemble a good portion of the interior cabin and pull the tanks up through the interior cabin or two cut a hole in the keel. After much discussion with the boat yard and other boat owners and builders, I opted for cutting the keel. Some of the old tanks still had to be cut in half in order to get them out of the boat.
I could not find adequate replacement tanks so I had the boat yard build replacement water and fuel tanks from fiberglass. This proved to be a good solution.
I did have some challenges finding a good fiberglass repair person who also knew structural repair for the keel. The one I finally used did an excellent job of repairing the hole in the keel and in fact I think now the keel is stronger than when the boat came out of the factory. Which ever way you decide to go, but sure to get competent people who know what they are doing.
I will also add that this whole process was not cheap. The materials were the least of this repair, but it involved a tremendous amount of labor which pushed the cost way up. I wanted to be sure that the keel was repaired correctly and that any flexing of the hull would not induced any cracking around the area where we had cut into the keel.
If you have any other specific questions, I would be glad to answer them or help any way I can. Good luck.
Date: April 1, 2005
From: Rich Rogers richrogers@katewwdb.com
Larry,
I received forwarded e-mail from Paul Uhl regarding leaky tanks. We have an E-35 so none of this may apply. We did, however, just complete the process of tearing out our old 44 gallon aluminum tanks and installing new, plastic 20 gallon tanks. Some of our info may be of help.
Our reason was quite different. On the E-35 the tanks take up the entire space under the port and starboard berths. Our port tank moved enough to cause the center facing bulkhead to separate from the berth top. While investigating the cause we discovered the tanks were secured with an expandable foam. That led us to a problem we were having with moisture readings on our hull (during new barrier coat process), so we opted to tear them out completely.
All that to tell you this: We decided we would rather have increased stowage space and smaller water tanks. In researching all the options here is what we found. Cutting down and/or any kind of repair to the big 44 gallon tanks would cost between $400 and $500. West Marine offers a wide range of sizes of plastic tanks. They have a 20 gallon tank that fits nicely in about 1/2 the space available. That means you could put 2 tanks per side and maintain lots of water capacity, or 1 tank per side and increase stowage. We figured we could always use the stowage space for bottled water if the need arrised. For us 40 gallons of fresh, tanked water is plenty.
As a side note, I built a platform that screwed down to the boat. Then the tanks are strapped with heavy duty nylon webbing to the platforms. NO MORE EXPANDABLE FOAM ON MY BOAT! We also changed out the supply and air release hoses. They were really bad. In fact, the supply hoses were decomposing and causing unpleasantries in our old tanks.
The 20 gallon tanks are about $100 each at West Marine. Hope some of this is of help to you...good luck and happy sailing.
Date: April 3, 2005
From: Fred VerPlanck verplanck@fredsplace.zzn.com
Larry, et al,
I have been there....and I feel your pain. We went with polypropelene tanks and that has made all the difference. It's like drinking bottled water compared with the vile, putrescent taste that used to come from out aluminum tanks. The smaller, aft tank was replaced first, then we cut the forward tank in half with a sabre saw and replaced it with 2 side-by-side tanks, also of polypropelene. The tanks were made here in Trinidad by the Roto-plastics firm. A custom fit, well done, and well worth the $8/gallon price. The 2 forward tanks are connected physically and plumbing-wise. A common fill pipe and vent makes them "one tank" except for the double wall that seperates them. Photos available.
We "bedded" them on some closed cell foam to reduce the likelyhood of chafe from contact with the interior fiberglass. Good luck.
