Cruising on an E32

Date: January 16, 2000
From: Ben Stiles & Kati LeTourneau benstiles@hotmail.com

Paul;
I've got to say you've done a pretty nice job with this Endeavour site- It's very encouraging for me (as a prospective Endeavour owner) to know this community is here...

About a year ago, my fiancee and I got this crazy idea of dropping everything, buying a boat, and sailing the carribean for a while. We've now moved from Chicago to St. Pete and looked at several dozen possible boats for our little adventure.

The question I have for you (and perhaps members of the endeavour site as well - I couldn't figure out where to post this) is do you think the E32 is up to it? The impression I've gotten from everything I've read so far is that Endeavours are pretty strong little boats. This is going to be our first boat over 14' in length, so we are both pretty nervous about the whole procedure.

Have you, or anyone you know, taken an extended cruise on one of these boats? The one we're looking at is in great shape as far as I've been able to tell, though set up for local sailing, not cruising. There's a fair number of things that we'd probably change, such as adding a cold plate, propane, a true head (the previous owner replaced the head with a porta potti, though he left the through hulls and cleaned out the holding tank). She's also light on cruising equipment- She's only got two sails, a dacron genny on Hood RF, and a battened dacron main with a dutchman system; she'd probably need a few backup sails. She also doesn't have a spare halyard; I haven't looked at the masthead :), but is this common on E32's or is there a extra roller on top just waiting for a halyard to be fed through it?

I have so many questions about this boat- I could probably ramble on for pages. The upshot is, both Kati and I love the layout and feel of the boat, it's in our price range, and the general feel we've gotten is that this boat will make it to Venezuela and back (what we're eventually hoping to do..). If you (or anyone else) can give us any opinion on whether this boat is compatabile with our plans, we'd love to hear it.

Thanks in advance

Date: January 17, 2000
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com

Ben and Kati,
Where do I start? First, thanks for the kind words about the Endeavour Owners Forum. I started it about 2-1/2 years ago primarily to help me understand not only the Endeavour, but boats and sailing in general. It's success comes from everyone's participation and contributions, be it questions or answers. The rest is pretty easy when you enjoy doing it.

This is one of the most difficult questions to answer I believe. However, that would be true of most boats in my opinion. Is it possible--most certainly. I'm not trying to be flip but there is so much to consider. For example, I think the smallest boat on record making an ocean crossing is either a 9 or 14ft boat. Would I do your trip in our E32? I think I would consider it. However it would be too small for us as we have 3 children.

The Endeavour boats were specifically built for cruising the Floridly Keys, Bahamian, and Caribbean waters. But I think it's important to make some distinctions. The E32 was designed primarily as a 'coastal' cruising boat and I wouldn't characterize it as a 'blue water' boat. But that should be taken as a broad generalization in that I refer to a blue water as a boat used primarily for ocean type sailing--around the world type stuff where you're at sea for 2, 4, 6 or 8 weeks at a time. In that kind of sailing you can't choose your weather windows like you can when you're island hopping. In that case I would opt for a bigger boat built to different standards. My definition of a coastal cruiser in this discussion would include sailing long distances such as up and down the East coast and the islands, as you're usually within a day of two of some port. Since you can predict weather today fairly accurately (about 4 days out) this is a safe use in my opinion. The real questions for me/you should lay in what has been done to raise the safety margins in general. Not only to the boat but in your own skills.

The hulls are strong having been built during a period in sailboat production when fiberglass boats were over built (70s and early 80s)--hence their heavy displacement by today's standards. This can come in handy in the event of a grounding or hitting a submerged object. Fiberglass building in the 70s was really just developing and the industry used lots of resin to gain strength in their hull forms. Hence heavy, thick hulls. With advancements in fiberglass building and newer, stronger materials, we've seen the development of much lighter, stronger boats with thinner hulls. However, most true bluewater boats built today are still built heavy hull reinforcements in the forward end.

We have a large number of Endeavour owners that sail their boats along this very same route you're considering, and comment on how well the boat handles the conditions. If you look at the SA/D ratio it indicates that the boat was designed for this purpose (low ratio of sail area to the relative displacement of the boat) meaning that it is not a light air boat. I can vouch for this as our E32 likes atleast 10knts of apparent wind or more with a reef needed at just over 15knts. I think this is the normal wind range you'll find in the islands. If you look at the D/L (displacement to length) ratio, you'll note that she is a heavy design. This would indicate a relatively comfortable (or stable) ride and is about where most real cruising boats come in. Some of the newer true bluewater boats being built today come in under this but I feel this is more indicative of advances made in boat building technology. By todays standards the E32 has a narrow water line. This translates into directional stability, but the shape of the keel (short and fat) tends to hurt this a bit. It's great for the islands but I would want to steer across an ocean.

Having owned our 1982 for 11 years now, I would have to say that for first time owners in this size range, you'll find the E32 an easy to maintain boat as there aren't a lot of complex or sophisticated systems. The other thing is that systems require maintenance. If you add some prior to you're leaving they should be dependable and serve you well. Older systems usually require more maintenance. The rig is simple and stout, the steering system is one of the most dependable designs, and the hull is tough. All the things you want to build upon.

Big items to check. For the trip you're planning, replace all the rigging. Period. And consider upsizing it. Make sure your surveyor clearly understands what you're planning to do--before you buy the boat. I would specifically have him look at the chainplates and tangs--all the hardware on the mast for that matter. The steering system and rudder should be looked at closely. Check the hull for blisters and general soundness. Find a way to lock and SEAL the cockpit lockers. These open up directly into the interior of the boat, and in the even of being pooped, could allow a large amount of water into the boat. You'll probably need an additional head sail and maybe a storm sail. I'd get a good auto pilot, have atleast 2 anchors (3 preferable) with very strong ground tackle.

You may want to upgrade the electrical system. By that I mean increasing the your charging and battery storage capacity. Most E32s come with 2-85amp batteries which are insufficient for cruising. Plan on 400-600 amp hours. This will give you 100-125 amps per day. This amy sound like overkill but if you factor in refrigeration, air conditioning, etc., it will disappear very quickly. Of course you can do it on less but you should ask around and calculate you use.

Other areas to consider are what you would do in the event of an emergency--and there are many types. For instance, what if either you or Kati get seriously hurt? Can you 'doctor' each other? Can either of you single hand a boat . . . in rough conditions? What if you need to abandon the boat?

These are the types of things I think about when I think of sailing. To me preparing for an extended trip is very exciting and can be a great and rewarding experience. But it does have a dangerous side and if properly planned for, should see you through safely. It's kind of like poker chips . . . the more things you can do to insure the soundness of the boat (any boat, not just the E32), and the skills of the people sailing it, the less chance you'll have of having a serious problem.

Having said all of this I think it's only fair to say that I've only done day sailing, and that most of my knowledge comes from what I've read or learned from other sailors--in other words not from practical experience. I think your question is a wonderful one that most of have on our minds and would be happy to send out to the group. It should garner a lot of responses, however most of the people with the knowledge you seek are out there doing it right now.

One person I'd like to point you to is Kevin Coon. He has a1979 E32 and has cruised, raced, and gunkholed extensively in Florida, Bahamas, Mexico, Bermuda, and the Caribbean aboard her for about 10 years. I've talked with him a number of times and think he'd be more than happy to share his knowledge and experiences with you.

You can read about it and reach him through his boat review on our web site at: http://endeavourowners.com/dscsn/reviews/327905.html

Date: January 17, 2000
From: Tom Gilbert TGil95746@aol.com

Holy Cow !!! Ben amd Katie, have you got an experience waiting for you !!! The E32 is excellent. It had been used in the BVI during the 70' and early 80's, but is now not young enough. My 32 is an '80. You'll need to upgrade a lot of items, because in 1980, there wasn't available the equipment/furnishings/comforts that we now take for granted.

Plan on a wind generator off the stern, along with dinghy davits. Install D.C. circuitry in the interior. Add an inverter or a diesel powered A.C. generator in the engine compartment. Relocate the fuel tank into the bilge to do the previous item. Buy and install an airconditioner into the main hatch. Install a dodger and an enclosure around the cockpit. Install depth meter, knot log, and water temperature probes. Install an autohelm compatable with your laptop computer and gps data transfer logic. Consider installing propane cooking. Add BBQ grill, and a radar reflector. Get a storm trysail, and upgrade all your sails. Be sure you have a furling genoa, and consider lazy jacks. Install bow anchor placements, and winches. Don't forget the EPIRB and MOB equipment. I could go on, but my taxes are due in March !!

YES !!! The E32 is an excellent sailing platform. I love the stability, comfort, and strength, when I'm out in a blow, or just cruising on the bay. She has plenty of cockpit room, and lots of interior ventilation and volume. Enjoy the boat !!!

Date: Monday, January 17, 2000 1:58:39 PM
From: Tom Gilbert TGil95746@aol.com

Ben & Katie... My E32 's mast (40ft.) is on my deck for the winter. I have dual halyards, plus one for the cruising spinnaker. I'll take the two internal in the spring, and install spreader lights as well. The mast top had a wind system, and will get a new one at the same time. I have three winches at working height, and will rebuild two. I'll install lazy jacks, and sand and repaint the mast w/ two part imron, as I did with the boom. I changed out the cable/rope halyards to all rope. No stretch has come a long way in 20 years. They fit over the two sheaves nicely.... Change out the thru-hull gate valves to ball-cock valves. There should be six of them. There's a lot that's really right w/ the Endeavour line. The outhaul is a 2:1 purchas internal to the boom. Pull on the outhaul to see if it still operates, if it doesn't, it just reverts to a 1:1 system and can be recovered later. Enjoy it !!

Date: January 17, 2000
From: Bob Flath oldthumper@istnet.net

Ben & Kati...
I own a 1976 E32, centerboard, tall mast. My longest cruise is four days and only on the Chesapeake Bay, so doesn't compare much to what you might be doing. I think the E32 is a good size for a couple, like you folks. My four day cruioses are with five others in a charter situation. This can seem rather crowded, although for crew its wonderful.

You might want to have a larger fuel tank installed. Mine is only 20 gal, fine for my purposes, but if I go into open ocean, I'd want more fuel backup. You'll need more sail's, as you point out. Pay close attention to the engine and its maintenance records. Have a mechanic check it out. Most marine surveyers are not engine mechanics. The E32 is a very stable and good heavy weather boat. I have raced mine in 35+ knot winds, and survived five hours of Tropical storm Earl 4 September 1998. This five hours was intense, with me running with the waves and wind and still taking waves over my head and into the cockpit. She came through fine and I feel I owe my life to the sturdiness of the boat.

I have two rollers at the top of my mast one I use for the main halyard and one for the genoa. I have added pulleys above and below the forestay for asymetrical and symetrical spinnakers, as well as a spare halyard for any other headsail I might use. I replaced my original centerbaord with a steel one, which so far seems to be much better in handling and performance. The original was snapped off in the aforementioned tropical storm.

Just in general, have GPS, good charts, and backup nav tools. Harness's and life lines are good ideas, plus EPIRBs, radar reflectors, and a good liferaft.

Hmmm...I feel as though I've just touched the surface. Please feel free to contact me if I can help any more. Please conntact your local Coast Guard Auxiliary for whatever help they can offer. Cheers

Bob Flath
Vice Commander, USCGA Flotilla 14-05, District 5 South
Vice Commodore Dahlgren Yacht Club, NSWCDD, King George, VA

Date: January 17, 2000
From: Rob Johnson robjude@shianet.org

Hello to Ben, Kati and the list

My wife and I have sailed Danny's Fault on the Great Lakes for the last seven years. The longest we have lived aboard has been 3 months at a time, doing this on several occasions. Upon retirement we plan on making the Great Circle Tour and spending some time in the Islands.

Liveability--The bigest problem we had with the living space on the boat was the lack of galley space. We modified this by shortening the starboard setee by 22", and moving the stove forward by 22". The area under the new counter top, where the stove used to be, was converted into galley storage. This gave Jude more room in the galley without a big loss of sitting space down below. It does create a problem for a sea berth on starboard tack, but a lee cloth on the port setee is the answer (although an uncompleted project). We do very few overnight trips and just haven't got the job finished. I can email pictures on request.

A full cockpit enclosure would be nice and is in the plans before we go off on extended cruise. We had this on our last boat, Tartan 27, and it greatly increased our living space.

These improvements make the limited living space on the 32 tolerable.

Storage--I am not sure any boat has enough storage. We do quite well carrying spares and staples, but we do get to a dock with a store usually no longer than being out for 5-6 days. This cuts down on the amount of fresh food we carry. (We sail Lake Houron's North Channel and sit on a hook for that long at a time) I do not know if water storage on an E32 is enough for extended cruising.

I do have a concern about the back 1/3 of the Keel being hollow. If the hull were hold in this area, there is no good way to plug the leak!!! We have friends who chartered a larger E that had tankage in this area and they did hole the boat. The only reason they didn't sink was that they were on top of a coral head. ANYBODY HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS?? (besides stay out of the coral and rocks)

Sailability-- We have always liked the way the boat sailed. I wish it would point a little, but..... Gentlemen never sail to weather. We have sailed the boat in winds with gusts up to 40-50, not my idea of fun, but the boat, under shortened sail did ok. The worst was motoring in a squall where the wind was clocked at over 70kn--that sucks. It only lasted for a short time (10 min) before it slacked off to around 40. Again, the boat did fine.

Whatever boat you decide, make sure you hire a good surveyor to look at the boat.

Feel free to contact me. (Excuse the spelling and typos, no spell check on this old program)

Date: January 17, 2000
From: Pete Doddato lapdog@olsusa.com

Hi Ben and Kati,
I will tell you what I know about my boat and what others that have them have told me. One member of the forum who lives in Isreal sailed his 32 from Long Island to Isreal. He said he had gale force winds for around 16 days while crossing the Atlantic. He said the boat did well with no major problems.

I know another owner who sailed a 32 from Australia to Florida, again no major problems. Everyone I have talked to that have owned Endeavours say they are very capable of cruising the Caribbean. They said they would just pick a good weather window and go.

My wife and I have the same plan as you do. We bought our Endeavour in July 99 for $10,000. It came with a storm jib, tri-sail, 170%, 150%, 130%, a spinnaker and pole, roller furl 150%, and main. The previous owner also installed a baby stay. He did lots of coastal crusing including several trips to the keys and the Dry Tortugas. He bought the boat new and sailed it for 22 years. He was very confident in the boat's capabilities and only sold it due to a stroke.

We are involved in a major refit at present. We completely rebuilt the head....new hose, head, macerator and through hull valves. We have the pressure alcohol stove and we tore it down and cleaned everything and it works very well. I'm afraid of propane on a boat. The wiring was replaced a short time ago due to a lightening strike but I have added an additional panel and circuits for fans, tv, and dc outlets in the cockpit and the v-berth.

Presently I am installing new bronze portlights from New Found Metals. The old plastic ones had been leaking for a long time and were cracked etc. The leaks damaged some of the interior teak and one small area of plywood in the side deck. This has been a major job. The old portlights were bedded in an adhesive like 3M 5200 and when I removed them some of the surrounding gelcoat was damaged. I have repaired all of that, repainted the deck with 2 part poly paint and I am presently cutting new teak plywood panels for the inside. When they are installed I will be ready to install the portlights. This operation has taken about 2 months of weekends and it has been messy but well worth it.

Future plans include new standing and running rigging, a boarding ladder, refrigeration, upgrade the battery bank and install a high output alternator, an inverter, refurbish the helm, add an autohelm, larger delta or cqr anchor, chain rode and windlass and if I have any money left I will install some electronic goodys I would like to have.

The reason I tell you all of this is to let you know what you are getting involved in. It is lots of work but costs can be kept down if you can do most of the work yourself. Believe it or not we do actually get to sail once in awhile too. :-) We love the boat and the way it sails. She has a nice motion and it feels solid. Get a survey before you buy and know what you are getting into.

If I can offer anything else, feel free to email me. Oh, we live just about 100 miles south of you on Charlotte Harbor.....nicest place in the state as far as I'm concerned. Good Luck

Date: January 18, 2000
From: Chuck Iem SLam570731@aol.com

Read your memo, have a 77, e32 that i have been refitting, don't know what year u have in mind but the boat changed quite a bit in the 80's. have alot of info if i can be of any help would be glad to pass it on. and yes the boat is more than capable for cruising, just make it comfortable for your needs

Date: January 25, 2000
From: Bradd Wilson marina@portcolborne.com

Dear Ben & Kati.
Go for it. The Endeavour 32 is a great boat for cruising the Caribean for a number of resasons: its shoal draft will get you into protected anchorages where others can't, it has lots of storage room and space for cruising equipment like a major battery bank, refridgeration, propane tanks, extra sails and even a roll-up Zodiac.It is fast enough to egt to safety when the forecast turns sour and roomy enough for a couple to live comfortably and entertain another couple on a short term basis. Cruising upgrades that you'll probably want should include a second anchor and lots of chain (requires modification of the locker), good instrumentation, bigger batteries and probably a wind generator along with the cold plate and propane you mentioned. You're probably looking at $10,000 if you add in a dinghy and outboard.

We sailed our Endeavour from the Graet Lakes to Florida in 1998 with offshore overnighters from New York to Norfolk and Cape Fear to Georgia without any problems. In the Spring we went from Ft Lauderdale to the Dry Tortugas and back also trouble free. This fall we did the upper Keys and then crossed to the Bahamas in some fairly nasty weather. This is a pretty tough little boat. We reef early when it gets breezy and avoid bad weather whenever possible but are extremely pleased with Enchante.

Date: November 29, 2002
From: Neil Mackay pmackay@rogers.com

I can see that I am at least 2 years late in replying but only found your site last week.

I had an E 32 (1976) which I sailed from Riviera Beach, Fl, to Venezuela thru the Bahamas and the islands via the "thorny path'. What a voyage. Limited time, since we left in June and I had to report to work in Trinidad on August 1, so no time for cruising. In those days, you used a sextant and a log. No fancy stuff. The boat, Brandywine, was wonderful, despite 18foot seas, in which my wife became incapacitated, making for a lonely scary passage from Mayaguana to Puerto Rico.

Best part of the trip was rounding Saba rock, as it was the first time that we could sail off the wind. As we all know, the E32 is a little less than perfect to windward.

We sailed the Caribbean with the E32 for the next 3 years, up and down the islands, singlehanded as well. Even with a newborn..A perfect boat for a young couple.

Now we have an E38, aft cockpit, which we bought in 1983, one of the first. Frankly, its a much better boat..great going to windward, commodious interior and a joy to sail if you like going fast.

We now live in Ottawa, Canada, and still enjoy it after 18 years. Now refurbishing it to make the original designers proud.

R E P L Y