Seacocks, scuppers, and halyards
Date: November 1998
From: Robert Chamberlain rchamber@mail.snip.net
I bought my boat (1979-E32) in September and noticed that the seacocks were frozen shut (the owner hadn't used the boat for quite awhile). I was not overly concerned because the the boat was being hauled three weeks after the purchase. Last week I started removing the seacocks but actually found them to be serviceable with just a small amount of oil. Two of them were Groco's which use a rubber plug (diesel engine water intake and drain for sink). Two other seacocks I am working on are gate valves (cockpit scuppers). Neither of the traditional seacocks were installed properly in that they were not bolted to the hull. Has anyone else found this to be the case? I am going to replace the gate valves with ball valves but am curious if anyone has tried to relocate the through hulls for the scuppers. Mine are located on the starboard side of the engine and are below the water line. I have to look closer but I thought they might be located above the water line via a more direct route.
My boat apparently has Beckson ports installed. The starboard side near the bow shows water damage. I looked at some of Beckson's literature and measured the angle on the sides of the coach roof and found the angle excessive for their standard ports. Has anyone installed the ports that allow for an angle greater than 15 degrees? And if so has it produced the desired result?
I removed the toilet so I could overhaul it over the Winter. Has anyone tried to get parts for this unit? I noticed most of the seacocks in the head area are also gatevalves. These valves look like a lot more trouble to replace. My shower dumps directly into the bilge. Was this normal or was there some type of pump in line with the drain originally?
Has anyone replaced the halyards with all braided line and eliminated the wire rope. I know the wire is there to reduce windage but curious how much additional windage would result from a halyard that consisted of all braided line.
Any information would be appreciated.
Date: November 1998
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
Rob,
First of all congratulations on buying your Endeavour! I've had mine for 10 years now and as the years have clicked off, and various projects scratched off the list, have become that much more familiar with the boat.
Valves
All of the valves on our 1982 Endeavour are original. What surprises me is that they are of the standard house variety. It's on my list. Ball valves are the right choice. I haven't tried to relocate any through-hulls however, we have tried to reduce the number by terminating the head so that it cannot be discharged overboard. We simply capped it with an end fitting. One note: if you're going to use bronze, make sure it is properly grounded.
Ports
From your question it sounds as though you believe that the water damage is from water leaking from the ports lense. You might try a installing a new rubber seal first. The leaks we've had were usually from ports not tightened properly (over or under tightened) or worn out seals. You should inspect it real closely however, because at about 10 years the caulking begins to deteriorate and the entire port needs to be rebed. I did this on all of our ports 2 years ago and the port leaks have stopped. It is a big job. Our boatyard wanted $500 a port including new teak in the coach roof. It took me 6, 10-hour days to do the job. We also have Beckson ports and I simply cleaned them up and reinstalled them. Nobody (like Lewmar) makes anything that even comes close to fitting the existing cutout--even with cutting a new size opening.
Heads
We got parts for our head, but I highly recommend just replacing the entire unit. By the time I added up the cost for the replacement arts and the time I spent taking the old apart and fixing it, I would have been better off buying a new one. Yes, our shower drains directly into the bilge. As I understand it however, it used to have its own pump and overboard discharge. In the 10 years we've owned the boat we've never had the need for the shower so it hasn't been a priority on my to-do list. Maybe we'll install a pump connected to the heads overboard through hull with a weather proof switch (like the ones on powered winches).
Halyards
We replaced all our halyards about 5 years ago. The key is the sheeve at the masthead. The diameter on ours will not permit rope to pass through so we replaced ours with the same wire/rope combination. All rope will increase windage but most owners I know go for all rope for the reduced weight. Some of the expensive line also has a low stretch factor similar to wire. I have no regrets--especially sine our mast is so heavy and creates a fair amount of windage already, it didn't seem that the benefits were substantial enough. Now maybe if we bought a new mast . . . <g>
Well, there you have it. Some of the projects I've been looking at have been toward improving creature comforts. When Barb and I bought "Friendly Confines" we were only two. Now we have 3 boys and space is becoming an issue (as well as time). We keep flip-flopping between making upgrades on our Endeavour so that it is more comfortable for all of us, or getting a larger boat (3 cabin layout). Something in the 37-38 ft range. It's a lot more boat though, a lot more work vs. a boat we know and can manage. We've been looking at converting the stove to propane, upgrading the electric system, a new main sail with lazy jacks for simpler handling, a boarding ladder, and maybe a self steering system. We've already added roller furling (love it!) and some solar vents. A dodger would also be nice along with a simple awning setup for that HUGE cockpit area.
Hope this has been helpful.
Date: November 1998
From: Ed Yusis Yusise@aol.com
Lots of questions.
First I have a 37 ft. Hull valves were all balls ,but were also stuck. Opened the grease fitting , relieved the pressurre and work the valve so I could open and shut. Scupplers (SP-) are above the water line. My boat is cutter rig, I replaced the stay sail with halard only. The wire was a pain to haul up and down. it cost a little more, but easier on my hands and the epuipment. I forget what else you asked about. Where is your boat. Mine is in Florida.
Date: November 1998
From: Dave Wright dgw1@aol.com
My Endeavour also had seagates which I have replaced except for the ones in the head under the sink which are above the water line. I have also replaced the scuppers valves which were also seagates, but I did not relocate them. I assume they are below the water line to enhance draining under way which should create some suction.
I have also replaced all ten ports with Beckson raindrain ports whic are supposed to drain up to 45 degrees. You will have to cut slots for the raindrain sections.
My shower also drains into the bilge which would appear to be normal by design.
Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Date: November 1998
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
Our old valves are literaly frozen to the thru hull(s). Any ideas on how to get them off (unscrew them) without damaging the the thru hull? I'm coming close to hacksawing them off. I've done this with removing the nipples from old cast iron radiators, and if your carefull, you can do it without damaging the threading. Anybody have this problem?
Date: November 17, 1998
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
As an update, we did replace all but two of the gate valves with seacocks. Used 'Liquid Wrench' to loosen them and they came right off. Didn't need a heat gun or torch and the thru hulls are fine. Only problem was the tight space and reconnecting the ground but we feel much better now. Especially my knuckles. Thank you everyone.
Date: July 18, 2000
From: "Buzz" Segura LAMTBUZZ@aol.com
Found many of my brass seacocks -rubber ball- gouged enough to consider replacing this part just about throughout boat. Two of the fittings have the handle"brass rod" broken off. They all are in good shape except for the wear inside. Do you know if "GROCO" is still in business, can I get the ....actuating part (ball and lever) somewhere ? I do not know if it is "par for the course" but. You ask ten people about the availability of an item......they tell you of two places that definitely HAVE it. Those two people have no Idea what you are talking about and send you to two more places ! ....who also knows not of what you are talking about, of course. God bless the forum and contirbutors!!!
Date: July 18, 2000
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
Buzz,
I know what you mean. However, sometimes what seems to be the easiest solution is the most difficult. Two years ago I had to deal with our seacocks and decided to just replace the entire thing. Groco is in business and the address is listed below. Although Groco parts are available in most Marine stores (check out West Marine or Boat US online), it would probably be best to call Groco direct for individual parts.
However it's my opinion given your description to just replace the entire thing. They're not that expensive, especially consdering what a failed seacock means. As I remember, it took me 10 to 15 minutes to replace each seacock, and mine were frozen on the thru hull.
Groco (Gross Mechanical Labs)
7240 Standard Drive
Hanover, MD 21076
T) 410-712-4242
F) 410-712-0160
Let me know if you have any problems.
Date: August 20, 2000
From: Michael Gendel mgendel@worldnet.att.net
Buzz,
Yes, Paul is correct. Call them. The cust service guy is very nice. I needed that handle for the small cock under the fwd head sink of my E42. Guess what! That is the one they no longer make or stock!! They are tricky little devils with a burr that keeps them from backing all the way out. So I have improved with a bolt with the same thread. Use wrech to operate and take care not to back it out lest I have to rethread it back in.
Also I lubed all, all the ones my fat hands could disasseble, the other cocks with a water proof grease. Cheers.
Date: November 30, 2000
From: Charlie Mackey mackeyc@juno.com
I relocated the scupper drains on my 79 E-32 shortly after looking under the cockpit and seeing the amazing jumble of pipes, hoses and valves. I don't know who designed the system or why. I removed everything, sealed the holes in the hull, and drilled two new holes directly below the cockpit drain holes. I installed new thruhulls in these and new cockpit drains, connecting them with a piece of hose. I did not put seacocks at the thruhulls since they are now above the waterline. I have had this arrangement for 5 years now no problems. In addition to working space gained under the cockpit, I can clean any debris from the drains by pushing a stick down the hole.
Re internal halyards, I did these at the same time. I simply installed halyard exit ports in the mast and replaced the wire-rope halyard with 3/8 in low stretch dacron. It was a tight squeeze leading the dacron into the masthead sheaves but once led through there is no problem. You also can put in dual genoa halyards now, a handy item every now and then.
