Stuffing Box packing alternatives
Date: July 9, 2001
From: Roy Canon RoyCanon@prodigy.net
Hello all,
The stuffing box on our E35 has just started to leak at an increased rate. Although the packing material is of unknown age, I know it is more than 15 months old because that is how long we have owned the boat. Therefore, I am reluctant to simply tighten the packing nut to stop the leak, because I have read that such a practice may lead to shaft damage.
My questions are:
- Has anyone attempted to replace the packing material with the boat in the water? If so, how did the job go, and how extensive was the water leakage? Did you attempt to provide any type of external seal to the prop shaft outside of the hull to minimize the leakage?
- Any recommendations on sealing materials other than the standard impregnated flax "rope"?
- Does anyone have experience with alternative sealing techniques besides the traditional stuffing box?
Thanks in advance for any information and/or advice...
Date: July 11, 2001
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
No practical experience with it but I just saw a review in the July 2001 SAIL magazine (pg 82) on a new product brought to us by the folks at GoreTex©. It's a gland packing made of a non-asbestos braided fiber, withstands temps to 550°, never gets hard or abrasive, promises to have a long life and low maintenance, grease free and doesn't shrink so you don't have to worry about tightening up the gland nut.
It's $16.75 for a 1/4" x 24" strip.
W.L Gore & Associates, Inc.
800-455-2854
www.gore.com
Date: July 11, 2001
From: Carol & Bruce McMahon lbm@amherst.com
Hello again,
I would also be interested in any replies as Cu Mara has also started leaking more from the packing area around the shaft. The yard that launched her last June (2000) said they had to work at reducing the leak rate. I will have to check with them if they put all new packing in, or simply added more and then tightened things.
Date: July 11, 2001
From: Ed & Marilyn Blithe mblithe@worldnet.att.net
Roy, on "Invicta" E32 we replaced the stuffing with a dripless Strong stuffing box and haven't had a problem/drip in 5 years. I couldn't stand the thought of water dripping into the bilge all the time so changed it out. Good luck.
Date: July 11, 2001
From: Stephanie Tavag Livejon07@aol.com
dear roy,
i have the same problem with my e32, i have tightened it several times but now it is not working anymore--it is dripping very fast. if you get some answers back please share them with me--thanks a lot.
Date: July 11, 2001
From: Joe Monteiro JoeMonteiro@netscape.net
Hi Roy,
Packing wear is normal. With the engine running and in forward loosen the locknut and tighten the packing nut a tiny bit then let it run a bit. Tighten it a bit more if necessary until the drip is back to normal. Be sure to hold the packing nut with a wrench while you loosen or tighten the packing nut so as not to disturb it's setting.
Date: July 11, 2001
From: L.A.Mikoloff miklin37@earthlink.net
Roy,
If your packing isn't totally disintergrated,you may be able to just add a ring or two of new packing without pulling the boat out of the water.This should fill up the stuffing box enough to stop your leak.
I would maybe stuff a rag around the shaft exit tunnel from outside (under water) to slow down any water entering the box. Occasional slight dripping is O.K. it helps keep the packing cool so it won't burn up. Just snug up the packing gland at first & give it 1/4 turn at a time until leakage stops.
Hope this helps you out, mechanical seals are available, but very costly.
PS-dont forget to remove the rag.
Date: July 11, 2001
From: Josh and Barb Wallach jwallach@flash.net
Roy:
Glad to hear that Maiden America is still sailing well! I know her past two owners personally! Mike and Connie Parker and Jeff and Colleen Johnson both live in our neighborhood and are good friends of ours.
Do yourself a favor and replace the box with a PSS shaft seal. I did our E42 almost 6 years ago and it was one of the best purchases made for the boat. It cost us about $150 initially, but we've had a completely dry bilge and I NEVER worry about adjustment! Its well designed and takes about 2 hours to install (boat needs to be hauled). You can definitely install it yourself if you're handy.
Pls email me if you have any other Q's ...
Date: July 12, 2001
From: Jim Brown captjimlbrown@hotmail.com
If you are looking at dripless systems, you should also consider the Gen II system from Nautical Specialties in Michigan. I had one on my last boat and am installing one next week on my recently acquired E51. The main difference is how the stern tube and seal are connected. The Gen II uses a piece of wire reinforced exhaust hose versus a much thiner bellows on the PSS. I know PSS sells a lot more systems, but good friends of mine (Alchemy) had the bellows fail in Clear Creak Channel and had some tense moments before they were able to get the boat hauled. Lucky for them they weren't 200 miles offshore!
Yet another Endeavour to call Kemah home.
Date: July 12, 2001
From: Brian Kuko mycaptaino@hotmail.com
I recently replaced my packing gland with a Lasdrop mechanical seal which is rated highly by Practical Sailor. No leaks and it is built with high quality components, down to 316 clamps. Good Luck!!!
Date: July 12, 2001
From: Ric Seymour ric@chesapeake.net
This will probably be my last Endeavour List email. I take delivery on my new Gozzard G37 in a month. I have used the original packing gland (Stuffing Box) with 3/16 Teflon packing generously covered with Teflon grease for years. No drip when shaft is stopped and almost no dripping when under power.
PSS Shaft Seals are great but they have been known to have catastrophic failures. I take my boat to Bermuda every other year and to Halifax, NS on some years. I would not want to have a PSS failure during one of the trips. Especially this year when I had to motor the last 120 miles to Bermuda because of absolutely no wind.
If I had a PSS Shaft Seal I would keep a WAX RING used to seal the base of commodes on board. If it fails you can pack around the shaft with the ring. It'll hold.
Date: July 12, 2001
From: Ed Mahoney ed.mahoney@us.abb.com
Roy,
I have a E42, and I change the stuffing box packing about every two years in the water, whether it needs it or not.
I get a stream of water about the size of a dime, and the Bilge pump can easily handle it, so I use the water to rinse the path to the bilge. I wipe the area with a rag soaked in Bilge cleaner while I do it, and all looks good when done.
I keep my boat in a freshwater river, and have to deal with a lot of mud/silt, and have never had a problem. I usually take about 15 min mid-summer and do this away from the dock, were the water is clean and clear. My biggest concern has always been getting silt caught in the packing.
I always keep about 6 strips of Flax Packing pre-cut in a ZipLock bag ready in case of failure, and I use them for this, and then replace immediately.
I have looked at some other packing Gland solutions, but as long as I am in fresh water, this seems to work well.
I also polish the shaft at this time and check for scoring. I clean the shaft with a small amount of very fine finishing compound, I use 3M Finesse It 2, and a cloth rag, then wipe with soap and water, repack and enjoy the sail.
For safety, I choose a generally calm day, drop sail, and drift. At this time, I also check the shaft bolts, and shear pins for wear and rust.
Good luck
Date: July 21, 2001
From: Dick Jewell SailorofSJ@aol.com
Roy,
TIGHENING IS OK TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. THE KEY IS THE STUFFING BOX SHOULD NOT RUN HOT. YOU CAN RUN THE BOAT AT SPEED FOR A WHILE AFTER TIGHTENING THE PACKING AND THEN CAREFULLY FEEL THE STUFFING BOX. I HAVE ALWAYS REPLACED THE PACKING EVERY OTHER HAUL OUT...
NOT BAD BUT SCARY AS YOU HAVE TO COMPLETE THE JOB AND IF PACKING NUT GETS STRIPED THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM. IT IS BEST IF YOU CAN FIND A FRIEND WHO HAS DONE IT BEFORE. YOU HAVE TO BE ALL SET WITH TOOLS..I RECOMMEND GETTING A PACKING PULLER WHICH IS LIKE A SMALL CORK SCREW ON THE END OF THE TOOL. IT MAKES PICKING OUT THE OLD PACKING EASIER. ALSO GET PACKING THAT FITS..IE YOU'LL HAVE TO FIND OUT AHEAD OF TIME... AND IF YOUR NOT SURE OR BUY VARIOUS SIZES. YOU'LL NEED TO CUT IT IN ADANCE THREE RINGS TO FIT AROUND THE SHAFT.. NIGEL CALDER'S BOOK Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems
THIS BOOK IS SUPER AND I STRONGLY RECOMMEND GETTING IT AS THIT ANSWERS SO MANY MAINTENANCE QUESTIONS.
I FIGURE THE STANDARD PACKING WHICH IS CUT INTO THREE SEPARATE RINGS ALLOWS EASIER REPAIR ONCE YOU GOT THE HANG OF IT.
Date: July 25, 2001
From: Rick Cass bacchus42@earthlink.net
Dear Roy,
We are in the final stages of refitting an Endeavour 42, and dealt with the stuffing box last summer. We pulled the shaft and replaced the box with a PY dripless seal. It has worked well, and our questions of everyone who has used one resulted in 100% excellent reviews.
As to the old stuffing box, there is no reason why you can't tighten the packing gland, and if it slows the water to 1-2 drops a minute while under way with hand tightening or very light wrench application, then you needn't fear and damage to the shaft. If it takes a loyt of effort, then the flax is hardened, and may heat and/or wear at the shaft. If you go the flax route, and there's no reason not to, the teflon impregnated flax lasts longer, needs less water for cooling, and has less friction.
Friends of mine, (far braver than I) changed the flax in the water, with very little intrusion of water. A few gallons. This is done all the time, and doesn't seem to be a problem. Good Luck.
Date: September 2, 2001
From: John Chapman cra@visi.net
Howdy Endeavour-owners,
This is in response to Roy who requested shaft seal testimony.
Our E32 has a 1" SS shaft and bronze stuffing gland.Which started to leak a bit last year. I wasn't ready to haul the boat just for re-stuffing the shaft so I asked my local marina guru's, salts, usually engaged in an afternoon poker game just when I get serious about some repair like this one. Anyway, they said that I'd need some 1/4 flax packing which they had and I bought a one foot length. (a one inch shaft diameter times PI equals 3.14 inches per length.
Each segment is to be wrapped anound the outside of the shaft and cut at an angle, 3 segments are all anyone could possibly stuff into that tight gland) I then cut 3 equal pieces, each fitting exactly around the shaft. I asked if anyone had ever attempted repacking the shaft stuffing in recent history and they assured me it could be done with the boat in the water. These guys have a nice travel lift ready so if I got into trouble it wouldn't be too bad if I needed to be lifted out that afternoon. (I didn't really want to interrupt their card game). I also asked my slip neighbor about the procedure and he stated that after doing the replacement its imperative that the gland isn't too tight eg. not heating up after cruising for 15 to 30 min. run time.
I then prepared a 2x4 "prayer bench" to keep my knees from sliding past the point of no return into the "hell hole" thru the aft lazerette opening. (I had fasted a couple of days just to squeeze into that tight space and be agile enough to rotate & bend over. I made sure that enough folks at the marina knew I was going to attempt this task, but also had just put in a new bilge pump just in case with a battery charger and lights hooked up to boot.) I climbed in and disassembled the gland. An annulus of in-flowing sea water passed over the open gland and shaft while I cleaned the existing stuffing material out with a small screw driver and an opened-up paper clip. Just be sure to get all old the stuffing out first. The first segment will go in easiest and I needed to take a break for fresh air and leg stretching so I re-placed the gland ring with only one new packing segment in place and that annulus of seawater slowed to nothing. (the new bilge pump had cycled a few times before I got to this rest-point).
I walked up to the marina office and saw they were still focused on their card game, my legs seemed to need the exercise after bending in two in such a tight space even for a few minutes. I then headed back down the hell hole to complete the job before they went home for the afternoon. I twisted the gland cap off and proceeded to force the second segment into place. The in- flow was trying to rinse out the new packing. It became worse when small frayed packing material filaments were so prevalent from the second piece, which really didn't want to be driven completely home, that soon I had doubts about the whole operation, ( meanwhile, that new bilge pump humming was music to my ears). I continued to stuff and run a small screwdriver around the threads until I could screw the gland end cap back on without any flax filaments impeding its re-placement. The in-flow stopped and I called it a day.
The card game was then over and most of the marina crew was gone, although I trust the marina guys would have helped me out in a jam with the lift, I didn't want to inconvenience anyone. I decided to adjust the gland the next day, being sure to remenber this outstanding task.
The next afternoon came and I was ready to adjust the gland. The procedure is to slack the gland cap nut completely, then torque the cap finger tight, tightening the lock nut prior to running up the shaft. I started up the engine and rotated the shaft in the slip for just 15 minutes, sure enough it was hot, so I loosened it up. I then took the boat out into the river for a half hourrun and checked the gland, it was still noticeably hot so I slacked the lock-nut and end cap again then re-tightened it. I remained cool to the touch after that. Now, its a year later, It can run for long intervals with the gland remaining at sea-water temperature as it is designed without any noticeable leakage! Its been a year and it still is tight with only 2 pieces of packing in place 1/4 inch is the proper size stuffing. Too tight a gland can erode the shaft so be sure to check this critical item for heating after any adjustments.
It is good to know that this kind of repair can be performed in the water but isn't for the mechanically-naive boater.
