Engine Bed and Motor Mounts
Date: May 22, 2000
From: Paul Major MajorPau@HWMH.ON.CA
Dear Group:
I have run into a problem on my 1977 E32 involving the engine mounts. I just recently purchased this boat and it is becoming apparent that I did not get a good survey.
I got the impression that the Yanmar20 was vibrating allot after launch but having little experience with diesels was unsure. Fortunately a sailor at the next dock who is a mechanical engineer was able to have a look at the engine for me. He stated that flexible rubber couplings had totally collapsed and should be replaced to decrease vibration. The problem I have is that he also pointed out that the engine beds ( I assume thats what their called. The wooden beams that the engine sits on.) had been repaired not too long ago. There was newer fiberglass that had been built up around the inner part of the beam and attached to the hull I imagine to reinforce the bed. When we started the engine the forward part of both beds were vibrating back and forth probably 1/4 of an inch each way. The mechanical engineer felt there should not be any movement in the beds even with the collapsed rubber.
Can anyone help me with this. Is it natural that the beds would vibrate like this with the failed rubber feet or is this an indication that the mounts have to be rebuilt. I have ordered replacement couplings from Yanmar and hopefully this will get me through the season. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
P.S. She sails like a dream.
Date: May 23, 2000
From: Bill Lezotte wlezotte@indiana.edu
Paul,
I have just recently (within the last month) pulled my engine to overhaul it. I also have a Yanmar 2QM20.
I had serious engine trouble due to rod bearings rusted to the crankshaft. Anyway while it did still run the engine hammered harder than it ever hasbefore. During all that hammering the engine mount (fiberglass part built into the boat) did not move at all. I also have shock mounts that have gone very bad and the mount still did not move. Sounds to me like your engine mount is in very bad condition and someone has tried to do a quick fix.
Also note that the shock mounts from Yanmar (I ordered mine from Torrensen Marine in MI for $24 each) are much shorter than the originals. Short by about 3/4 of an inch. This plays a major role in getting the proper linkage to the prop shaft. Solution is to purchase rubber shock sheets like are used to install industrial air conditioners. They are the correct thickness and designed specifically for this type of task. They are made of stiff cork with rubber sheets on both sides. The nice thing is that you can drill it easily.
Like I said I had to pull my engine so if I can be of any assistance in that process I'll be glad to give any suggestions and warnings. Here in Bloomington, IN there isn't anyone around who can do such a task so I did it my self. Amazingly it only took about 4 hours and I had never done it before. It also doesn't take any special equipment as long as your mast is up.
Anyway I'll stop blathering on now. Although it make look like a huge job now it will look much easier once the engine is out.
Date: May 23, 2000
From: Tom Gilbert TGil95746@aol.com
Dear Paul.
Keep the E 32, dump the surveyor !!!
My rails do not vibrate, let alone move about !!! Fix the mounts permanantly, and enjoy the boat ! The previous owner is liable, should you care to pursue the matter, but probably the fix is much easier. I hope he bought a newish Hunter.
Date: May 24, 2000
From: Bob Flath oldthumper@primary.net
Paul,
I own a 1976 E32. I bought it in 1994. It had a Yanmar 12HP one banger as the original engine (terrible engine for a boat). I had it rebuilt and the next year it blew up anyway.
Vibration was its real downfall, I suspect (as does the Marina at Solomons, MD who replaced it).
I installed a new Yanmar 20 two years. To prep the boat the Marina completely tore out the old beds and fashioned new ones. I suspect your engine was NOT original equipment, and whoever did the installation did not completely replace the beds. In addition, those 'rubber things' are shock mounts. If they are destroyed, I would bet the vibration of your beds did it. One quarter inch each way is ALOT, not a little bit. Vibration of less than that in my boat caused the prop shaft to move about. I'm lucky it did not tear a large hole in the hull at its through point! It did tear up my transmission, which tore a whole in the rear of the engine, which drained the oil (all over the engine compartment), and caused the engine to overheat, seize, and come apart.
Yes, your surveyer SHOULD HAVE SEEN THIS! I learned the hard way.
Yes, your boat will sail fine. It just has a motoring problem which will ultimately cost you alot of money, rather than a much smaller chunk now.
Find a master sailboat diesel mechanic to fix the beds immediately. This will probably involve pulling the engine to remake them properly.
Believe me, if you have the same Yanmar20 as I have now, the engine will operate all your life with just a little care, but the proper beds are crucial. Good luck.
Date: June 13, 2000
From: Paul Major MajorPau@HWMH.ON.CA
Dear Paul:
I have got some great advice from the group regarding the problem with my beds and will make sure to thank everyone individually. I had the situation looked at by a highly qualified individual who informed me that the beds were basically sound and that all four mounts were "gone". His impression was that for the size and height of the engine the beds were not substantial enough making me think that perhaps the boat was repowered. He suggested that I replace all four mounts and install a shock absorber from the bolt that normally supports the lifting ring to the wooden crossmember that runs under the electrical panel. This beam is well supported and around 2" thick. His feeling was that because the engine was mounted so high in the boat, stabilization was needed on the top of the engine also. I did as instructed and the engine beds are now only vibrating except just at shut-down before the engine comes to a stop when there is a extremely small amount of movement noticed.
My question is can I run it this way or is vibration in the beds not allowed at all. I'm getting mixed views on this. It seems to me that it would be impossible to eliminate vibration from the Yanmar to the beds but I'm obviously not sure about this. My plan is to strengthen the beds next Fall but for now I'm hoping I can run the boat without damage.
Also is there anyone out there who can suggest ways to reinforce the beds. I have no idea how to approach this. Any help is appreciated.
Date: June 14, 2000
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
I'm looking for Pre 1980 E32 owners who have repowerd their boats form the original 12hp Yanmar to the 20hp Yanmar. The question is what, if anything, did you have to do to the engine beds and/or the motor mounts to accomodate the larger engine.
Date: June 15, 2000
From: William Gillette William.Gillette@med.va.gov
Hi;
My 1979 E32 came with the 20hp Yanmar (2QM20, I think it's called) as original equipment. Although several peripheral problems have surfaced that affected operation, the motor itself has been fine. Problems have been electrical (neutral safety switch) and fuel-related (sludge in the tank, activated in rough seas).
Thanks for operating this site. It's both interesting and useful.
Date: June 15, 2000
From: Bob Flath oldthumper@primary.net
My engine is the 2YGM (or something like that). This is NOT the QM engine. The 2YGM is an aluminum block. It does NOT fit the original beds. I have no knowledge of the QM engine. Good luck.
Date: July 7, 2000
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
As best I can figure, the history of Yanmar engines (for the E32) went something like this:
- The earliest E32's (mid 70's) were built with the 1QM, a 12hp 1-cylandar engine.
- In the late 70's Yanmar came out with the 2QM, a 20hp 2-cylandar engine) and Endeavour began building the E32 with those.
- In the early 1980's, Yanmar discontinued the 2QM and introduced the GM Series. The 2QM was replacedby the 2GM, an improved 18hp 2-cylandar engine.
- Yanmar also built the 3GM which is the 27hp 3-cylandar engine, and it seems that Endeavour began using those in 1981.
- The GM Series is still being manufactured.
Date: July 24, 2000
From: A.C. Whitlow, Jr. sailcat@erols.com
The good ship Spider John is in dire need of new engine mounts. I'd like to get a brand and part number from someone who has replaced theirs recently. My local shop wants to measure the old ones, then match them up, but I'm not sure my repair window will allow that to happen. Any help will be appreciated - the 4-108 is running great, but I need to keep it sitting in one place. 1979 E-37. Thanks.
Date: July 24, 2000
From: "Capn" Mike Miller capnmike_s@yahoo.com
Engine Mounts for the E-37 Perkins 4-108 are made by Barr...either #8001 if they are 5/8" bolts or #8006 if they are 3/4" bolts. They are available from most marine shops or you can get them mail-order from me.
Date: October 30, 2000
From: Paul Major MajorPau@HWMH.ON.CA
Dear Paul
I’ve just pulled the Yanmar out of my 32 to do some final work on the beds. When I cleaned out the bilge under the engine I noticed that the bottom was cracked all over in a pattern that you might see on a patio. I pried up a piece which came up easily. There appeared to be lead underneath which I assumed was an extension of the main body of lead in the keel. This area was wet and rancid. The bottom is nothing more then 2” thick resin with no glass. It breaks up easily with a screwdriver. There were no leakes over the summer and the hull seems to be in good shape where it encapsulates this area. The moisture was from rainwater that had run into the bilge.
I’m wondering if anyone has had this experience and if so how was it repaired? Is it caused by vibration or freezing? Is there anything else I should be considering? I have no idea why Endeavour would pour this stuff so thick as it is quite weak without glass. Any help would be appreciated.
Date: October 31, 2000
From: Paul Major MajorPau@HWMH.ON.CA
Hi Paul
Just to give you an update. Now that I have chipped most of the resin out of the bilge I have found that there is no lead underneath. What I thought was lead is actually discolored resin. It appears that Endeavour or the previous owner just poured this stuff on top of the fiberglass. I’m going to sand what is left down to the fiberglass and hopefully NOT find any problems. I still have no idea why such a brittle material would be poured in the bilge and hopefully someone in the forum can provide the answer. Once again thanks for your help.
