E35 Head
Date: March 20, 2002 Hi Paul, Date: March 21, 2002 Practical Sailor reviewed heads in the Sept 2001 issue: Marine Sanitation: But if you're willing to spend like a sailor, Blake, Groco and Wilcox-Crittenden all make regal thrones. Date: March 22, 2002 Roy, I had an early Lectra/San on my first boat, a Pearson Vanguard. I don't know what the new units are like as this was over 15 years ago but "LaMachine" as we called it back then stank like anything and needed frequent maintenance, not to mention the fact that it was an electrical black whole. I don't recommend it since many ports of call are now in "zero discharge" areas and the Lectra/San will not help there. My suggestion is to increase holding tank size using an SS constructed unit and when it is responsible to do so when off shore areas use the "y" valve. Municipal Waste Treatment Plants that overflow after heavy rains are one of the biggest contributors to this type of pollution rather than individual vessels. The Irony is that if you've been responsible like we are and used your holding tank and pump out when necessary (our home harbor of Mamaroneck is a no discharge area), the stuff may wind up in the water anyway from such treatment plant overflows or from unscrupulous sewage disposal contractors. In fact our harbor is highly polluted with human waste because of illegal and leaking home sewage systems and connections but the cleanest place in the harbor is just off the mouth of the treatment plant outfall pipe. Go figure. I hope my comments have been of some help. Another couple of other notes on the E35. First pay careful attention to the condition of your mast step as they are prone to deterioration from rust. The good news is that the problem can be fixed fairly easily and solidly as mine was and not for a kings ransom either or by tearing up the head. If you have not already done so I suggest you install a "Spartite" seal around the mast. If you do you will never see water run down the stick inside the cabin again. I also have a recommendation for increasing the size of the "not really a double berth" inside the main cabin. We got it up to 44". Please feel free to contact me if you are interested in how to deal with the mast step or the berth. Last thing is if you want to really improve performance go for a MaxProp three bladed propeller, its great with the engine and it virtually disappears when sailing. Regards. Date: March 20, 2002 Hi Roy But, before that, I've heard rumors from doubtful sources that suggest Elect/San systems are no longer legal is some parts of the US.....don't know what parts, but I hear in Florida where I live.....would venture to guess that the local Coast Guard office would know all the latest about that. We had a Elect/San system in a Catalina before we purchased our 85 model Endeavour 35.....electric draw from the boats batteries was a little excessive from time to time. Just completed reworking the head and waste systems on our Endeavour this past week. We recently purchased the boat, and the previous owners said that the system was set to pump overboard.....of course, we wanted to get the sails up as soon as possible....so we used the system. The odors made it obvious that something was wrong....and after several other repairs, finally got to the waste system. We started by tracking were all of the plumbing went....and discovered the entire system was wrong....first thing was the Y-valve was mounted wrong....so that all of the waste went to the holding tank, if you moved the valve the holding tank dumped into the bilge (the previous owner thinking that the waste was going overboard had never pumped out the holding tank and he had the boat for about 10 years), needless to say there was 10 years of waste there.....so we took the boat to the pump out station, and tried to pump out the tank...but no!....nothing could be removed from the tank.....I took the boat back to the dock and removed the pump out line discovering that there was no standpipe connecting the pump out fitting to the bottom of the tank (later I discover that the input line and the pump out line had been switched)....but more important the holding tank itself was cracked, everything from the head went to the full holding tank and out the crack into the bilge....bummer. Further, once the Y-valve was correctly installed....the line to the overboard discharge thur-hull was missing (previous owner said that that thur-hull was for a future A/C system). I had to replace the tank....we now had the opportunity to consider new systems. Having had previous electric drain problems with elect/san, I ruled that out early. I thought about increasing the size of the new holding tank, but that would have required a fairly involved overhaul of the mounting system for the tank under the vberth and possible space limits. In the end we elected to simply replace what was there. I went to the local West Marine and ordered a 24x14x10...5/16 thickness tank....exact part that came out (by the way in order to empty the old holding tank I removed the pump out fitting and used an inexpensive hand pump to pump the waste into a bucket [well 4 buckets] and out of the boat....finding a place to dispose of the waste is another story). The new tank had pre-existing threaded holes for the intake and pump out plumbing in the front of the tank instead of on the top where the old tank was.....so I replaced the line from the y-valve to the tank intake with a new one long enough to connect to the new location and used a coupling to extend the pump out line (the connection to the pump out deck fitting is very difficult to access behind the walls of the head, as are the head plumbing lines that loop above the water line there...fortunately the lines themselves were in pretty good shape...there is an anti-siphon valve at the top of the loop...the shower sump is in there too, also with an anti-siphon valve {which needed to be replaced too}). After working on it for a week....with the new holding tank installed and plumbed and the y-valve connected as originally designed.....everything is working now....and the aroma in the boat is much better now. Hope your story is not such a nightmare....good luck, best wishes. More later.
From: Roy Canon roy@rfcanon.com
My wife and I coastal cruise our Endeavour 35. The boat has the original toilet with Y-valve and holding tank arrangement. Because of the boats age, we are planning to completely replace the current waste system (head, hoses, tank, etc.). My question to the membership: What is the BEST system to install? Should we just duplicate the current components, or go with a treatment system such as the Lectra/San? Also, we would like to have something approaching a "full-sized" toilet. Our main concerns are reliability, minimal odors and ease of use. Cost is a distant consideration. For general information, we have good space under the V-berth (where the current components are located), the E35 has a rather large head compartment and we have plenty of electrical power. A further consideration is that waste pump-out stations are somewhat rare in our area. I would appreciate recommendations on specific manufacturers and models for the systems that are considered to be the best... Thanks in advance.
From: Paul C. Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
Manual Heads - Raritan PH II A Best Buy
From: Jon Richards Endeav35@aol.com
I was the owner of an E35 until last November when I upsized to an E38. I replaced the original Gorco head several years back with the Raritan electric higboy I don't recall what the designation is. The E35 has sufficient room for this larger unit and the more comfortable throne it provides is well worth it, so I highly recommend going for it. The electric feature is a real plus and if you have the current I'd go that way. I did not replace the tank, however, if you are considering doing so, a Stainless Steel unit would be the way to go. We found the standard poly unit to be a little small for extended cruises and less then fragrant at times. To give you an idea of price, I just installed a new custom shaped 20 Gal stainless tank on the E38 for the head in the owners cabin and the cost was $950 for the tank. Keep in mind that this was a special order triangular tank being fitted up under the nav station (there was a huge cavity that was used to store the spinnaker) so it also had additional mounting points added which increased the cost. You would probably pay less for a standard shape.
From: Russ Smith skybound01@earthlink.net
I've got a short story about waste systems that I can make really long.....
