Autopilot on E32 - E35
Date: April 8, 2001 Hello everyone, In particular we've been considering an Autohelm 4000 (rated @16,000lbs) for our E32 (which displaces 12,000+ empty) but I'm concerned that we may be at the boarderline for that size pilot. Next size pilot up is hydraulic and easily double the cost.
Date: April 9, 2001 I have had an Autohelm 3000 on my 32 for about 10 years. No problems. It has driven me around the clock for days at a time under power or sail. It works great all the way from a run to a close reach: wing and wing, spinnaker, heavy air, moderately light air: all are no problem. Down wind in light air isn't great but it is better than the wind vane. I like the 4000 a little better because the belt mechanism is more compact. It is all I need in an autopilot. Have fun!
Date: April 9, 2001 I have had a 4000 fitted to my E 35 for 5 years and have never had a proplem with the drive , fluxgate or control head ; The 4000 plus , is sustantially the same with a little more data at the head. I would carry a spare geared belt as i have seen these strip when the crew or helmsman uses the wheel for a safety grab bar with the clutch still engaged. Nothing to the replacement.I am currently interfacing it to my GPS and Nav computerover the 183 connection Be aware of the power consuption and take advantage of the power and drive economy mode.With following seas and a running wind it is least effective and hunts with some oversteer and hand steering could be better but in my case while beating and reaching it will hold a steady course. I have yet to calibrate mine better than 4o off from my steering compass but it is consistant
Date: April 9, 2001 We installed an Autohelm ST4000 wheeldrive autopilot on our 1984 35' Endvr in 1992. It works fine up to winds of 18 - 20 knots; then one must steer by hand.
Date: April 9, 2001 Hi gang.
Date: April 10, 2001 We have on our 32 a Navico, was there when we bought the boat. This unit so far has served us well. Only inconvenience is that it is not permanently mounted, we need to mounted and dismount for usage. However, I Don't think it is still available.
Date: April 10, 2001 Our E32 came with an Autohelm 3000 autopilot, the kind with a "sewing machine" motor that attaches to the base of the steering pedestal and has a belt drive to a pulley on the helm. I don't think this model is made any more. It works fine. We broke the bracket to which the control unit mounts and Raytheon was very good about sending us a replacement part. We have found out that it works best when motoring, particularly on days with little wave action. When we are motoring fast the autopilot has to work hard to counteract the tendency of the boat to want to go to the right. On those windless days I get the boat headed to the next waypoint, using the GPS, engage the autopilot, and sit back with a good book. It steers better tan a person can. It continues to work OK in seas up to 2 feet if beating or reaching but does not do so well (neither does the skipper!) on following seas that pick up the boat and want to spin it through 10 to 20 degrees. It also works fine when sailing (again beating or reaching) but really needs the windvane attachment so it would be sailing to an apparent wind rather than to a compass bearing. I consider an autopilot almost in the "must have" category as it will keep the boat headed into the wind while you raise/lower sails, step below to make a sandwich, etc.
Date: April 10, 2001 We have a autohelm 4000 on our E32 "cloud nine" have had it on in winds up to 30 and it held a good line under power . it seem to wander a bit under sail but i single hand a lot and wouldn't be without it.
Date: April 10, 2001 I bought my E32 last July and it came equipped with an Autohelm 4000. It is adequate in relatively calm conditions, but it is ineffective in a following sea and it seems to work very hard as soon as the seas build up. I would go for the next size up.
Date: April 10, 2001 Paul: We navigate using a laptop computer running the Capn, linked to the GPS and the Autohelm 4000. The navigation system worked just fine, unerringly bringing us to selected waypoints. We bought the Autohelm from $999, which was a sale price at Boat/US, and we paid just under $800 for a professional installation. I was tempted to install it myself, but I am really glad that I did not, because it is definitely not a job for someone with my moderate skills. Go for it!
Date: April 10, 2001 I have had an Autohelm 4000 on my E-35 (168) since 1991 and it works perfectly. In respect to its durability, when I race I'm a trimmer, so when I cruise my boat most of the steering is handled by the Autohelm and I tweak the rig. I'd say that it may have more hours at the helm of my E-35 than I do, both under power and sail.
Date: April 10, 2001 I have an E32 with a WP5000 NAVICO WHICH HANDLES THE BOAT VERY WELL . They sell for around $600.00 on the internet
Date: April 10, 2001 Paul,
Date: April 11, 2001 Thanks for the feed back on the ST4000. While I expect that the ST4000, or most other pilots for that matter, will perform well in clam conditions, I was wondering
Date: April 11, 2001 G'day Paul, we use a Navico 4000 older style so old I had to convince the company to fix it all it needed was a new bushing. But anyway it works fine in moderate wind and waves. The flux gate compass has to be fairly level and it is belt driven to the wheel. I have found it handle our 32 just fine even when loaded. I do have to watch it to make sure that it stays true but in comb seas it works great. In the islands we used a autohelm digel head on a 32 packet and it worked great it was the motor type mounted to the wheel spoke. Hydraulic is great lot more dependable and doesn't take up helm space but I think mounting it on a 32 mite be a little tricky. We had one on our pearson 39' and only used it a few times and I don't remember the name brand when I sold that boat it didn't make a lick of difference to the people that bought the boat they were going to continue in racing it anyway (it had a stick not a wheel). Spent the last two nights on the boat while a board meeting in Traverse City was cold and windy all night even could feel her shake (still on the hard) but anyday I can get aboard is a good one. I have to repaint the bottom this year before the splash.
Date: April 11, 2001 Paul,
Date: April 11, 2001 Paul, we had an 3000 on our E33 when we bought it 6 yrs ago. Two years ago we replaced it with the 4000, primarily because I installed speakers near the control unit which is a no no. Also wanted to get rid of old belt the 3000 had. Both units have more than enough power to handle a 33' boat. We are very satisfied with 4000. I would suggst remote control option; you can wander around deck hwile it's engaged.
Date: April 12, 2001 Paul, On the trip to the Dry Tortugas, we started with fully charged batteries and the autohelm was on the whole way. The only other power we used in transit was the water pump occassionally, vhf and the running lights. .......about 24 hours in all. Winds were between 15 and 20K with seas on the beam most of the way so the autohelm wasn't working real hard. Going down we ran the engine most of the daylight hours as we had no wind at all......sailed all night. How much power did we use?........I haven't got a clue. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Date: April 12, 2001 Hi Paul, I don't have a 4000, mine is a 3000-I don't remember having the ability to save settings in the 4000 that I used. The pilot seems to "learn" if you put in in standby for a minute or two and sail your course-it seems to get a feel for the conditions. (could it be my imagination? )
Date: April 12, 2001 I have the 4000 wheel mount for about 4 or 5 years and I have had no problems with its ability to steer the boat. The only problem is where to mount the fluxgate compass so it is not influenced by the metal or engine. I have not totally solved. I have it calibrated for sailingand when the engine is started it doesn't read the correct compass setting but the error is consistent and will hold the boat on the course you set just fine. I have used it in 25 knots winds with no problem. If I were buying a new one I would buy a similiar size again.
Date: April 14, 2001 AUTOHELM 4000 has been on my 33 for years and has handled everything I can put her through.
Date: April 19, 2001 Good Evening Paul, Mine seems to over correct when making course tweeks but I understand there is a way to adjust this out. It's more noticeable under sail. I did see alot of boats in this size range equiped with this unit. The discussion I had with my broker (who I am impressed with from a knowledge stand point) was that this is an excellent unit and the right one for this size boat. Hope this helps....Good luck.
Date: April 23, 2001 We have been engaged in quite a lot of research regarding an autohelm for our 32. Our current autohelm - called 'George' - is an old belt-driven model. Time and again we are cautioned against the 4000 and advised an investment in a 7000 would be the most sound. Two main reasons are the below deck drive, and subsequent power and control in seas with our full-displacement hull (It is said the 4000 is strained in seas and would chronically over-compensate for slop). We are still thinking, listening and reading, however. Also, 14 months later, we have "finished" our 'Tenacity.' We bought a hull, and started from there. Every moving part, every cable, hose and line. Newly relocated and redesigned Nav station. All new electrical. New plank teak sole (replacing the herringbone teak sole). Portlights. Canvas. Paint. Varnish. Fiberglass. Bottomwork. Deckwork. Sails. Standing and running rigging. 1994 3GM 27 horse Yanmar. It's done (well, almost: we're having the bimini, camper-dodger, hatch covers, sail covers, rail covers, seats and "goodies" completed now. The icing on the cake, don't you know). I could bloody cry. What a damn fine sail she gives us. It's been particularly prescient that we live in St Petersburg as many of the original vendors still work here and have advised us. We even met the man who completed the teak interiors on the 32's. Most remarkable. Well, I ramble on. I know Billy has mentioned some of this to you. We'd like to send you photos and take advantage of your technology and wisdom and to which, if any, you should like to post on this web. May we have your current mailing address? Do you mind
Date: April 30, 2001 Goodmorning Paul, Date: March 3, 2003 Last spring I installed the Raytheon ST 4000 plus MKII autopilot. However I seem to be having problems 'tuning' it properly. Maybe some of you can help. When we tune the fluxgate compass sensor--do the 2 minute circle--we get a very high reading, something like a 22, which is out of the range by a considerable amount. There could be one or two contributing factors. 1) It wasn't a perfect calm day when we did this and 2) the placement of the fluxgate could be a factor. I'd be interested in hearing from owners of this unit to see where you located your fluxgate and what experience you've had with fine tuning your unit(s). Date: March 3, 2003 Paul, My other question is where did you mount the fluxgate? I mounted mine facing rearward on the verital cockpit wall just underneath the helmsmen seat, it was the only place i could keep it at the centerline of vessel and far enough away from the auxillary diesel. I would first try tuning it at dockside then,like I mentioned when I installed mine the fluxgate was not positioned forward in vessel, and I had to tune it dockside as the fluxgate was 180 degrees out of sync. once I did that all was fine, and if you can incorporate it into your other instruments ( ie. Plotter or wind)its other features are even nicer.I mounted mine all at the helm in a Navpod and other than pulling wires through the 1" tube it was an easy install, and its nice having everything at the helm. The old instrument locations (in the bulkhead) made a nice location for some waterproof speakers. Hope this helps... Date: March 3, 2003 Steven, Date: March 3, 2003 Paul, I recently installed the Raymarine ST4000 plus on my 1978 32ft endeavour. I had to move the fluxgate compass twice to get a proper reading when I swung the boat. It is located above the sink at the top of the bulkhead next to the companionway entrance. (I hid the wire under the headliner so it doesn't look too bad)I now have a deviation of 2 degrees. It took a little messing around with the gain setting (and the boat speed setting if you don't have it hooked up to a GPS). It works great now. It does seem to work better at sail than under power. If i can be of any more help, let me know. Date: March 3, 2003 Paul, It sounds like the sensitivity is set to high, Sorry, I wont be able to help you for probably 6 or 7 more weeks until the ice is gone, good luck Date: March 4, 2003 Paul, Regarding the location of Fluxgate compass. How about just inside the storage locker against the forward vertical bulkhead under the sole (just before the stairway). I am guessing that the locker is approx 12" deep and the unit is only 3". This would put it pretty close as illustrated on page 56 in the manual (I downloaded Chapter 5: Installing the ST4000+ from Raymarine web site. I don't expect to get my unit until the end of March from Defender. Thanks for you comments and suggestions. Date: March 7, 2003 Bob and Paul, You stated that your effect was just under power. If so this would seem to indicate that the shaft alignment is off. But that would almost have to mean that the tube is aligned improperly and the previous owner (assuming you bought the boat used) had to have known this. Best I can do! Date: March 13, 2003 We've also been using Autohelm/Raytheon autopilots on our E35 for about 17 years. The first was a belt-drive unit, the 3000, which worked very well until it burned out. The current one, the remote compass, more sophisticated 4000ST, works well, with a few important points: First, it took several tries to find a location for the remote compass that was far enough away from the engine and electric panel (magnetic fields, I guess) finally settling on the bottom of the aft end of the port locker above the settee, where it has resided for 5 years now. The other problem we have had is because the new unit is so much more sensitive, it reacts badly to sudden current draws throug the house battery bank, such as the surge when the refrigeration compressor tries to start when motoring, for example. When this happens, it will suddenly turn 30 degrees to starboard, then self correct, when the draw is smooth again. Sometimes, it has not self-corrected depending on whether the refrigeration compressor managed to start. Our solution up 'til now was to turn off the refrigeration if we were using the autopilot, but this season we are installing the Parallel Isolated DC switch system to keep the engine totally separate from the house banks, and we will be replacing the old Adler Barbour system with a new one. One more point is to measure the total length of the feed 12V circuit, including the return to the battery, then use the next size larger than the 3% suggested sizing on the ABYC wire gauge chart. Route all signal wires, including interconnected NMEA/Seatalk device cables as far from the engine as you can, and not running parallel to nay high-amperage 12V cables, like the charging circuit -- this keeps the signals clean. Have fun. The purchase of an autopilot was just as important as a spray dodger for us -- couldn't enjoy cruising without it!
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
I'm interested to hear from E32, 33, and 35 owners about their experiences with their autopilots. We're thinking about installing one on our E32 and am interested in hearing about your experiences with the model/sizing/reliability on your boat.
From: Kevin Coon kkcoon@worldnet.att.net
From: Geoffrey Tyers GTYERS@aol.com
From: Nathaniel W. Pierce npierce@bluecrab.org
From: Tom Gilbert TGil95746@aol.com
I have an '80 E32 with the Autohelm 3000. It has performed flawlessly through all that I have put it. I did line the wheel with a piece of belt inside out, which helped the traction of the existing belt drive. Actually, helped is an understatement. The old belt would slip, so I glued it inside out to the wheel, and bought a new one for the drive. They fit tooth to tooth, and NEVER slip. It's only a heading hold autohelm, but with a GPS in highway mode, I actually am at great ease walking about the boat in any conditions. and can tap the left/right button as I see fit. Captain Tom
From: Joe Hrobuchak jh1251@yahoo.com
From: Robert Warren rwarren@inna.net
From: Ric Rheinlaender ClipperM30@aol.com
From: Jay Dominguez Ableint@aol.com
From: David Read Barker drbarker@monitorinternational.org
Lisa and I installed an Autohelm 4000 on our E32 About Time last summer, before a trip from Annapolis to Cape Cod. Within just a few minutes, we could not believe how we had managed to live without it all those years. We found that its greatest value came in light to moderate winds, both motoring or sailing, when handling the wheel is normally the most tedious. In seas over 3-4 feet or winds high enough to require a reef in the main, we turned it off and steered by hand. In general, we found that the autopilot performed better in pointing and reaching than in running downwind, especially in substantial quartering seas. In these cases, the response time was too slow to prevent the boat from swinging up 20-25 degrees each side of the course, which made us feel that we were "all over the place." Aside from these limitations, we never felt that the instrument lacked sufficient power.
From: Jonathan Richards Endeav35@aol.com
From: Ken Nikkola kennikkola@msn.com
From: Pete Doddato sailaway@olsusa.com
We have an Autohelm ST4000 on our E32 and it handles the boat well. We sailed to the Dry Tortugas and back with it and we didn't have to touch the wheel the whole way. Wind was between 15 and 20 and seas were 5 to 7 feet. I have used it in winds up to 35k and it still handles the boat but it is really doing alot of cranking...... I prefer to hand steer in those conditions anyhow. The only problems I have had is with wiring connections becoming loose otherwise it has been trouble free.
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
From: Don Shepard stoneware@journey.com
From: Kevin Coon kkcoon@worldnet.att.net
From: John Craine jcraine@optonline.net
From: Pete Doddato sailaway@olsusa.com
I am the wrong guy to ask about power comsumption for anything. Electrical things either work for me or they don't. I have to get my kid to fix an serious problem for me in that department. It is the only area on the boat where I get lost in a hurry therefore I keep things pretty simple on my boat.....not alot of fancy electronics for me.
From: Kevin Coon kkcoon@worldnet.att.net
In light air the boat doesn't respond quickly enough and the pilot's off course alarm sounds.The pilot is really at its best motoring! I ran it once for 5 days and nights coming home from Mexico in dead air, took less than 30 gallons of fuel.
From: Dennis King Kingdtk@aol.com
From: Richard Voelcker rvontv@peoplepc.com
From: Jim Neihoff AnnaCA7@earthlink.net
The E35 I just bought came with an Autohelm 4000 installed less than a year ago. I have only used it a few times but I can give you my two cents if you like.
From: Julie Roberts & Billy Vance Klknny1@aol.com
From: Todd Evans Endvr33@aol.com
I have an Autohelm 4000 for "Evening Star", my 1985 E-33 and it has worked reasonably well. I am currently watching it carefully after last years overhaul of the unit. The motor had to be replaced, as did the gearing and clutching at an expense of about $275.00 from raytheon. The unit also utilizes a wired remote control which is nice to have when running around single handed. The overhaul was observed to be required when the autopilot would routinely decide to stop tracking the course apparently due to resistance in the motor, and gears. Up to this point it seems to be working brilliantly. The unit tracks a very accurate course and is very user friendly. Mine only has the basic functions without the wind vane etc. or GPS input but I am told that for a reasonable fee Raytheon will add NEMA wireing for the GPS. (of course I am told this after it returns from overhaul). I figure the unit to be one of the earliest 4000's out there and it was used extensively by the previous owner. I wouldnt be terribly oncerned about its power either as "Evening Star" weighs about 11,400 lbs empty from the factory. I figure currently aprox 12 - 12,500 lbs and the unit works very well in winds up to about 25 - 30 knots and reasonable seas. All in all I have been very satisfied with the 4000. Good luck in your Endeavours :)
From: Paul C. Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
From: Steven Sic ssic@excite.com
I installed the same autopilot myself last spring, and in the Detroit area i had less than a 3 degree deviation with the compass. The day I syncronised the compass was extremely rough as well. I had to make several large 360 degree passes while motoring. Once your at dockside you can tweak the compass deviation. the grid to magnetic declination at the bottom of your chart should be close to what you should be at
From: Paul C. Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
Nice looking set up! I mounted my fluxgate under the pilot berth (port side) facing aft on the bulk head wall (between the pilot berth and setee) as close to center (inboard) as possible. I also manually compensated for deviation but the problem I have is tracking. In other words, I have to set the helm sensitivity at 2 (1 is the most responsive) to sail relatively straight, but even then after a while the boat will increasingly start to sail a zig zag course and I have to rest the unit.
From: Kevin Koch captkoch@yahoo.com
First of all thanks for all your hard work. The site has been very helpful.
From: Steven Sic ssic@excite.com
I have noticed my Autopilot will wonder side to side, but usually only when motoring somewhere. the trick is to turn down the sesitivity. This only happens when I am using it in compass mode. After experimenting with the unit I have found when the A/pilot is steering to a waypoint the further the waypoint is the less correction the unit will make, and as I get closer to my waypoint it starts to wander more, until I am within 50ft of the mark and the unit has a mind of its own. I think the logic might be working on an average (speed,heading distance) heading to the mark, and as you aproach there is less distance it trys to overcorrect> Just like it is while trying to hold your bearing. I first noticed this on one leg of a trip from Pelee Island to Cleveland harbor. when I set the course (gps) to cleveland 55nm there was very little deviation in the unit but within a half mile it was realy wandering.
From: Peter/Marilyn Sicurella psic@rcn.com
Thanks for the picture. Yes it is a bit overwhelming. My thought on the location of the control unit was on the port bulkhead (just left of the companionway). I purchased a Raymarine remote model A15002, and planned to have that unit at the helm to operate the main control unit. Is my thinking correct or am I missing a concept of operation as to the use of remote?
From: Bruce McMahon LBMcMahon@northropgrumman.com
Someone in the forum did report at one time that his boat (a 33 I believe) demanded a lot of helm on one particular tack. This person did find problems with both his rudder and keel (again I believe) wherein the surfaces were deforming on one side of the rudder (and again possibly keel). But this was happening under sail.
From: Richard Sutton rsutton@optonline.net
