Blisters

Date: February 15, 2000
From: Jay Call jaycall@mediaone.net

Just hauled our new (to us) E-32 for the first time. The bottom was in remarkably good shape, with only one detectable blister--except for a curious line of the critters, all about the size of a 10-penny nail head, running horizontally on both sides of the keel, about halfway up. Since they popped easily with a fingernail, I assume these are cosmetic. Nonetheless, I wonder if anyone else has ever encountered something similar, or if anyone has any potential explanation. The yard guy just said, "Don't worry, they're just cosmetic--in the paint." Still, I'm curious.

Date: February 17, 2000
From: Mike Miller capnmike_s@yahoo.com

Hello John!
Regarding line of blisters along your keel...these are probably "cosmetic" in that they are grouped along a "seam" in the paint or gelcoat layup, where there may have been a string of small bubbles that turned into air-pockets...the important thing is to determine whether your structural glass is "wet" or not...that will tell you what if any problems you will have...this is easily done with a moisture meter, which most large marinas have. If it isn't saturated, you really have no problem...if it is, then the only real cure is a peel-and-recoat job...grinding out and filling individual blisters is a very stopgap measure that doesn't solve the real problem. Good Luck

Date: February 17, 2000
From: Allen Knapp aknapp@shiprps.com

John
You may want to take a look at:

I am not endorsing their repair services in any way and I have no connection with Zahnisers. It is just a good (informative) description of blistering and the underlying cause (hydrolysis). After reading this document, I have concluded that there is no such thing as "cosmetic" blistering.

Date: February 17, 2000
From: Joe Alvarez JAl1748@aol.com

When I first bought my E-33, the first time I hauled the boat I encountered the same situation, the yard had the same response, then on a subsequent haul out I stripped all the paint from the bottom and then put a barrier coat on the bare hull, I do not remember what the product was that we used, but it worked quite well, I had that boat approximately 6 more years and never had that problem again.

Date: February 17, 2000
From: Dave Denise Scotian1@aol.com

During the last haul out (and the first in at least 6 years) of my 1979 Endeavour 32, I found the same thing. The bottom was in great shape except for blistering along and within about 8" of the waterline (all blisters were very small and shallow). These were not just cosmetic blisters in the paint but actually went into the FG. They are somewhat difficult to repair because they are shallow and in clusters that cover fairly wide areas ( a foot long or more). They were repaired just like larger blisters without going too deep into the hull usually by mechanically sanding with fairly coarse paper and filling. Two barrier coats and bottom paint have kept the areas looking like new.

Date: July 9, 2000
From: Tim Cropley timwana@aol.com

There's absolutely no reason to not use west system as a barrier coat , i did just that about 3 yrs ago on my 32 and it has held up great , so long as you follow instructions to the letter . If i can be of any assistance on your removal , prep , or re barrier coating just e mail me timwana@aol.com

Date: July 8, 2000
From: Donna Cass bacchus42@earthlink.net

Hi All,
We just got finished with barrier coating our Endeavour 42, and researched different methods. There is no reason not to use West syatem, unless you have to sand between every coat. On a 43 this is a LOT of work. We decided on the West Marine Bottom Poxy, a 2 part system that you can put on one coat after the last as long as you follow the timing requirements. On hot humid days, as in our case, the timing was less. We used 4 coats with a short napped roller. This gave us about the 10 mils that is reecommended. With West Marine, if you put you first antifouling coat on within a time limit, you do not have to sand the barrier final coat.

Date: July 9, 2000
From: Ed Mahoney ed.mahoney@us.abb.com

Buzz,
I have good experience with the WEST System barrier coat approach. About 4 years ago, my 1985 E-42 developed some blistering about 2/3 of the way down the keel.When new, the bottom was coated with VC Tar, and has had a new coat of VC 17 every year, I sanded and filled the blisters with WEST system, adding fillers, and their barrier coat additive. Then I brushed on a barrier coat of un-thinned Epoxy, and # 422, and all seems well. This is the only place I have had any Blistering.

I have noted that the coating applied by Endeavour in my Bilge is coming off, This fall, I intend to dry the bilge, and plan to coat it with the barrier coat, epoxy mixture for added protection.

Date: July 10, 2000
From: George "Buzz" Segura lamtbuzz@aol.com

Hi Donna
Many thanks for your recommendation. Badly damaged E43 in Pensacola Florida. Been working on it for a little over a year. Once Perkins 4-154 is in, close up huge hole in port side and began reconstruction of interior. Hurricane Georges damaged ! A huge amount of TLC punctuated with large injections of hard won cash.....we'll be ready to head for the horizon !

Date: May 29, 2001
From: Robert L. Leto rleto@arl.army.mil

I am interested in purchasing an E43, 1982 or newer; however, I now have a major concern regarding blisters. I was in contract to purchase an E43 "Alborada" in FT Lauderdale by Rex Yachts. The interior of the boat was in good condition and the hull above the water line needed TLC. The deal breaker were large blisters (larger than the size of an average mans hand) all over the hull. Is this common?

Date: May 29, 2001
From: Terry Brant healthtrust@ilnk.com

Howdy! We have a 1977 Endeavour 32 sloop. Based upon my experience, I would say that Endeavour has no more problems than any other boat maker. I had a few small blisters when we last hauled our boat for a bottom job
and just decided to watch them. This after consulting as many experienced yard workers and sailors as I could speak with on the subject in order to reach a logical, reasonable decision. I would say that a greater danger than the blisters, which I was assured would likely be of no consequence at this time, would be a poor or improperly done repair, which could open a real can of worms. While it is true that an osmotic blister that is spreading and wetting the core is something that should be repaired, cutting out a small blister and not making a successful repair would likely set up a really bad situation that might not have existed prior to the attempted fix.

Sail magazine, in the July 2000 issue, had an article entitled Below the Boottop, which was about inspecting and buying a used boat. Regarding hull blisters, the article said that statistically one boat in four will have blisters below the waterline, and that you should concerned directly related to the number of blisters on the hull. They said that most blisters only involve the gelcoat and are a cosmetic problem only and that even when blisters penetrate into the laminate they will not have a significant effect on the integrity of the hull as long as their number is small. Hundreds, or perhaps thousands signal a pox - and the cost of repair could easily exceed the value of the boat. In my several years of boating I have never heard of a blister sinking a boat and the worst damage has been caused by improperly applied bottom repairs/coatings. Many of the older boats like mine, had very heavy amounts of fiberglass and epoxy and seemed not to be overly afflicted with blister problems. Most of the boats I looked at in my boat yard had a few blemishes and blisters. My 1978 Hunter 25 sloop, which I recently sold, had 3 very tiny blisters, and two the size of a quarter. I watched them for three years and they never changed or caused any problem that I am aware of. Two different boatyards did bottom jobs for me (one was a very high quality, top dollar yard), and neither thought it necessary to cut out the blisters).

Talk to your local yards and find out how they deal with blisters and their success with producing a permanent blister fix. One of my local yards, which operates next to a restaurant, makes it a point to finish all work by thursday of friday each week to accomodate the parking lot. I would be hesitant to allow them to undertake any repair that had to be rushed due to other considerations. If you have a seasoned and experienced blister repair man who takes pride in his workmansip, and only a few blisters to address, the call as to whether or not to repair can be made a lot easier. Hope this helps.

Date: May 29, 2001
From: Jonathan Richards Endeav35@aol.com

Owned an E-35 for 10 years and have stored both in and out of the water, alternatively and not a sign of a blister.

Date: May 29, 2001
From: Fred and Donna ver Plank verplanck@fredsplace.zzn.com

Robert,
We've had our E40 over 5 years...never had a blister. We attribute this to:
a) We are only in the water 5 months/year, and
b) we have a coal tar expoxy barrier coat below the waterline.

Our view: Endeavours are no more (and probably less) susceptible to blisters than other fiberglass boats of similar age. You want blisters? Buy a Tayana 37.

Date: May 29, 2001
From: Robert Chamber rchamber@iname.com

I own a 1979 Endeavour 32 and have only experienced a couple of small blisters. They were not deep perhaps a quarter in size.

Date: May 30, 2001
From: Don Kirkwood don_kirkwood@dynastart.com

I have had a HUGE problem with blisters on an E-38 from Florida. In parts the chopped matte layer peeled away from the structural glass in sheets. There seemed to be a waxy substance between the layers.

Date: June 1, 2001
From: Stuart Phillips StuP@aol.com

In general the boats that endeavor made did not have a lot of blisters. If you would seal the hall with a good vinyl Esther waterproofing you will have very few blisters.

Date: December 7, 2001
From: Andre D'Elena Andre_D'Elena@pgatourhq.com

I've just purchased a 1979 E32. I knew she would need some work done to the hull but I was not prepared for how extensive the damage was. Good news and bad news: The bad news is that my entire hull below the waterline is covered in quarter to dime sized blisters (aarrrgh!!) The good news is that they don't seem to go very deep? I've opened up about 20 or so and they are quite superficial. My only real question is this. There doesn't seem to be any laminate directly beneath these blisters? The exposed surface underneath the blisters is rock hard and doesn't "weep" any water after they've been opened, none at all? Also the gelcoat is quite thick! At the yard there's a Morgan OI right next to me that is undergoing some blister repairs and her gelcoat is about 1/3rd the thickness of mine?

I'm going to have the hull sandblasted and then it's time for some serious epoxy work. I'm committed to making her right but am a little confused as to the makeup of the hull? Could there be more gelcoat under my gelcoat? Perhaps she's already had a blister job done on her that didn't work out? Anyone ever experienced this problem with Endeavours or any other boats?

Tips and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Date: December 8, 2001
From: Michael Gendel mgendel@worldnet.att.net

Andre,
I am doing a total renovation/rehab of an E42. Although the bottom had zero blisters never the less I had the yard use the Bosch tool with the rotating blades to peel the gelcoat. I wanted to put on vinylester, which is a "newer" compared to the 80's resin more impervious to osmosis. The order was for .030 thickness. No way to measure but can definetly see the buildup at the water line. That said the boat has not yet been launched, but I expect good long term performance of this barrier coat. I think I paid about 1200 or 2200 as part of a very large amount of work the yard did. You can do this. The Bosch tool is about $800. The blades about $50. They go quick. I am guessing you might need 8 but its a wag. The resin is fairly expensive and you need to handle it as recommended.

There is a company in Annapolis owned by a Zeelander, Osmotech. They have a different machine, as a rough analogue like a Norelco shaver. I think they get at least $125 & maybe $200 per foot to vinylester a bottom, but it will be VERY smooth. Since they are mobile almost to anywhere, give them a call for a quote.

Of course you can ignore your situation, it seems to be more ugly than anything else, or keep chasing them. Good luck.

Date: December 8, 2001
From: Don Kirkwood don_kirkwood@dynastart.com

My E38 had blisters like you describe, but there was a lot of chopped glass over the gelcoat. We had her bottom peeled with a mechanical peeler, and some of the underlying glass fell away in sheets. It was left to dry out for 6 months, then each blister (there were thousands)had to be individually ground out - took weeks! Some "blisters" were actually shop voids, particularly in the keel area, but most were probably due to neglect. After that we used a vinyl barrier and epoxy on top. But we never got down to the original gelcoat.

Not a pleasant (or inexpensive) experience. Good luck.

Date: December 8, 2001
From: Mark Mineo chokingonthesplinters@yahoo.com

Andre,
Did the same on my 81 E37. Your blisters and mine are/were cosmetic. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do the job ... left undone, someday there might be damage to the laminate. It just means that Endeavor built a pretty good boat, given the technology of the time. The idea was that the gelcoat would be a barrier coat - and Endeavor laid it on thick.

Well, gelcoat being a polyester resin, things didn't work out that way. Water works it way through, but at a glacial pace. Don't sweat it; don't even bother to re-gelcoat. Just blast and grind the bottom off. LET HER DRY FOR THREE MONTHS, MORE IF YOU CAN STAND IT. Then use one of the good epoxy or vinylester barrier coats ... might as well go thick while you've got the chance. I like West System, because I know it. But you could search the net to get everybodies salespitch.

This is no big deal my friend. In the trials that sailboats put you through, this one is JV.

Date: December 8, 2001
From: Steven Sic TRIGGER300@aol.com

I have an 1980, endeavour 32 " Pegasus" and have had the same issue and have redone my hull spring 01'. May I suggest follow the Gougeon Bros. dirrection and use the West System. I paid someone to peel my hull instead of the sandblasting ( using a device similiar to a power planer) it left my surface a lot more consistant than sand blasting. If you have any question feel free to contact me as I have just been through it. It is a huge job. regardless of how you approach it

PS : I have most of the job video taped and would be happy to share it.

Date: December 9, 2001
From: Tom Gilbert TGil95746@aol.com

Andre you poor devil !!!!
You have purchased an Endeavour, not a Hunter. !!! Sorry about the blisters, I had them too, but your boat's bottom is solid resin and glass !!! That's partly why it's so heavy and so impact proof !!!

I grinded all my gel coat off to get to the bottom of my blisters. lol Notice the depth of the gel coat? Nice, eh? I then sanded her smoooth as a, well, you get the idea. The Interlux barrier coating is magnificant. 4 to 6 coatings, following the instructions carefully, as the hardening time/set up times are critical.

That was three seasons ago, and on Dec. 01, 2001 I hauled her for the year. "Look Ma, No Blisters!" Nothing. Nada. Zilch. ...Well, there was that spot where I ran into shallow water, but hey! I have 3 coats of ablative paint over the barrier coat. The first one is blue, the next two are bergundy, to match the bimini. When I see blue, I paint. Simple enough.

I love my 1980 E32, and am happy to be in her life. In fact, I am also looking to move up to an E42 CC, after my E32 and I part company. Afterall, I have just about refinished all that is on her, plus some.

Date: December 10, 2001
From: Andre D'Elena Andre_D'Elena@pgatourhq.com

Thanks for your words of encouragment. They were/are much needed. I'm having the hull sandblasted this week some time then we'll start the drying process. I'm afraid I don't have 3 or more months to let her dry. You think one would be enough? We'll just have to see what the ol' moisture meter says. Did you have to do much filling and fairing when you did yours or was it mainly a painting/coating job? Sorry about that email address of mine? I'll have to check that out.

Date: January 14, 2002
From: Andre D'Elena Andre_D'Elena@pgatourhq.com

Hello All:
Just an update. I've had my boat sandblasted and she is presently drying out at the boatyard. I'm going to wait until the weather warms up this Spring to start thinking about any Epoxy work. Plus I'm convinced she'll need atleast that long to dry out. I have moisture meter readings from here to the moon right now though they are slowly falling.

A few hard lessons I've learned:

  1. Do not sandblast your boat. I still have much grinding to do and for a few hundred extra dollars I could be farther along. Also I am told that the less gelcoat you leave on the hull the quicker the drying time. Let that baby breath!
  2. Time, time, time . . . drying takes a long time. Unfortunately drying is one of the most important part
  3. Get lots of good advice. Wading through the swamp of crackpot, halfbaked suggestions and advice is tough but you are bound to come across a few gems of 'good advice.' In this case quantity begets quality if you are discerning enough to perceive the difference.
  4. When you are feeling discouraged take a walk around the boatyard. There are bound to be people in more of a pickle then you. Talk with them for a while and marvel at how lucky you really are.

Hey, I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence. These are things that I've learned through this blunderous year. Finally, I just want to say thanks again. I've gotten lots of encouragement and 'good advice' from the forum. More later

Date: March 8, 2002
From: Andre D'Elena Andre_D'Elena@pgatourhq.com

Dear Fellow E Owners:
I suppose it's time for an update. The work on the hull of my E32 has been coming along slowly. I finally invested some money in a real TOOL and have made significant progress grinding. Right now I have the detail areas left to do ie leading edge of the bow, forward of the rudder and inbetween the through hull fittings. I cannot emphasize enough how much having a good grinder has helped. I started working with what turned out to be a buffer/grinder. It just didn't have the juice I needed and was taking forever so that didn't last long. A fella at the boatyard working near me finally took pity and told me I was working with a "toy" and directed me to where I could buy a "real tool".

I had the idea originally to just grind out the really bad spots. This seemed silly though once I got going. It was so easy to take the gelcoat off and it was so hammered by neglect and then the sandblasting that I basically decided to euthanize all of the gelcoat below the waterline. In retrospect it was fully the right decision. I've spent some pretty miserable hours in the yard grinding but my hull is already more fair (or less unfair??) which means less filling and fairing when I get to the epoxy stage. Plus I have a feeling that the barrier coat I set up will be more complete without the old gelcoat under it. It was in really, really bad shape.

I have not put a moisture meter to the hull since I started grinding. So I can't say wether the drying is going quicker or not with the gelcoat off? If it is progressing at all then it IS drying quicker (from the end of12/01 to 1/02 my moisture meter reading were actually going UP!!!!??) This is just me being superstitous I suppose but I figure it doesn't really matter until the grinding and hull prep are done anyway.

Right now I'm planning on dropping the rudder to do it separately and so I can get into the nooks and crannies around it a little easier. Also I'm debating the pros and cons of taking the through hull fittings out while I barrier coat etc . . . I'm starting to give serious thought to what kind of products I'll be using for the filling/fairing, barrier coating and bottom paint? Any suggestions?? Oh and I wanted to solicit advice about hull prep. What has worked for those of you out there who have had to do thisbefore? I've got a few spots where I'll be grinding out glass but for the most part I'm leaving the fiberglass intact. It has wicking in it but isn't delaminating and feels pretty sound for the most part.

Enuf for now - Thanks in advance.

Date: April 30, 2002
From: Andre D'Elena Andre_D'Elena@pgatourhq.com

Regarding Mike Millers post from 2000. Does anyone have any information or knowledge of vacuum bagging as a means of drying out stripped hulls? I'm performing a blister job on a 1979 E32. The drying is taking forever though so I'm casting about for alternative solutions ie tenting, bagging, whatever . . . I've emailed Mike twice to no avail (hopefully he's off cruising somewhere in that boat of his with the nice new bottom but that's not doing me any good here in the yard.) Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Date: April 30, 2002
From: Jim Parks RIPTYD97@aol.com

This may not be what you want to hear. On the Mississippi Gulf coast our boats are in the sea water all year round. We have had our E40 12 years. No one here ever worries about "drying out" unless your hull is cocvered with 1000s of blisters. (Gulf Stars are notorious for massive blisters.) Endeavours are very good. in 12 years..(4 haul outs, )we have had 5 small Quarter size blisters, that were boat yard repaired. To get a Interlux 2000 job we haul out, sandblast to the waterline, and coat with 2000, then the anti-fouling coats. i use Trinadad SR. If the yard is prompt and you do the paint yourself, you should be back in the water in 4 or 5 days. I have seen a couple power boats with 1000s of blisters get the total gel coat shave and that does require drying out, but not all that long. Boat yards here poo-hoo those moisture meters.

Date: April 30, 2002
From: Dick Caswell dcaswell22@hotmail.com

Andre ,
Have you checked your water tank to make sure it's not leaking water into the bilge / hull ?

Date: April 30, 2002
From: Tom Bullock THBWHB@aol.com

I heard a boat repair expert telling about a process he used that worked well and did not take long. He made a tent like under the boat hull and also on the ground under the boat sealing it as air tight as possible. Then he ran a dehumidifier for some time until the hull was dry. I think it was several days but I'm not sure. It sounds like it would work to me. I use a dehumidifier inside my boat during the winter to keep the condensation down and we have no condensation when using it.

Date: August 12, 2002
From: Terry Davey tdavey@globalnet.co.uk

With reference to the drying problems:

All immersed composites will absorb moisture sufficient to encourage degrading chemical reactions in unstable materials. Even the high quality FRP aircraft parts become damp. The osmosis problem is not a mystery, but the industry appears to be reluctant to accept the truth. Vast sums of money are earned by the companies selling so called barrier coats and osmosis treatments. Osmosis damaged hulls can only be effectively repaired by cutting off the damaged laminate, stabilising the chemistry of the remaining material, then rebuilding the structure with a non-reactive and completely cured material like epoxy resin.

Terry Davey,
UK Small ship surveyor.

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