Sealing Teak

Date: February 28, 2000
From: Jay Call jaycall@mediaone.net

What's been your experience with refinishing the interior and exterior teak? I'll have to undertake that job soon. Jackie wants a bright finish on the interior, and we've read the Practical Sailor reviews on the various products, which appeared to give high marks to Honey Teak and a two-step polyurethane process by Smith and Co. Has anyone tried these (somewhat expensive) products? Thanks.

Date: March 8, 2000
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com

Jay,
The finishes and reviews you refer to are for use on exterior teak. That's not to say that you can't use them on the interior but I don't feel it's necessary. Many of the exterior sealers contain 'tinting' that blocks UV rays from penetrating the wood. They're also a bit more expensive.

Several years ago we rebed the ports on our boat. We also had to cut new teak panels for the port and starboard sides. We used a glossy urethane right from the hardware store. It still looks great today. A couple of thoughts:
1) standard poly urethane is fine for the interior where it's protected from the weather. I wouldn't use it outside.
2) When we did our panels, I used 2 coats of urethane. On all sides and edges. I used 2 coats because I wanted some of the teak grain to show in the surface. More coats will build up the urethane and give it a smooth plastic-like finish. I sealed all sides and edges so that if a port leaks, it won't damage the teak.

Date: March 8, 2000
From: Mike Miller capnmike_s@yahoo.com

Hi!
I had called Endeavour about 10 years ago, after most of the original staff was gone, and spoke with a guy there who had worked on the original boats...he told me that the finish originally used in Endeavour interiors was Pettit Hand-Rub Effect Varnish...I think this is still available. I got some and it did match the original finish. I have used Hardware Store Min-Wax Polyurethane on the teak parquet flooring, and it has held up well for 7 years and still looks good. There is no reason to go to expensive marine finishes or 2-parts unless the wood is either exposed to sun or water or both...plain old poly works fine..if you are going to use a varnish get a really good"grip" by cutting the first coat 50-50 with Penetrol. This is especially true on exterior teak. On exterior work The wood should be cleaned and then washed with a strong detergent such as TriSodium Phosphate (TSP) to get as much of the Teak Oil out of the wood as possible before applying the varnish or sealer. Hope this helps!

Date: March 8, 2000
From: Tom Powers TomPowers@sunnuclear.com

Jay,
I would agree with everything Paul said in his response.

I can add that I have experience with the two-part finishes. Honey Teak was started by two guys in Ft. Lauderdale. They separated and one of the guys has moved to my area. He produces a similar product called Bristol Finish. I have tried both and like the Bristol better. They are mix and apply the same, but the Bristol does not have as much opaque material in it. It seems to last just as long as Honey Teak, but without the opaque color. Honey Teak has a golden opaque look while Bristol stays very clear.

Both of these products are formed for an acrylic base. They are very similar to the clear-kote used on automobiles. In fact, you can wet sand buff the Bristol to a really high gloss (like glass). I have had it on my boat for about a year, with just couple spots of breakthrough on the high exposure and wear areas.

Both of these products are easy to apply with a brush. They have a long pot time, and another coat can be applied within an hour. Since the setting of the material is chemical, subsequent layers will chemically bond the previous layer if it is applied within 24 hours of the last.

You can also apply these over a previous material, as long as the appearance is acceptable to you. Well I hope this helps.

Date: March 8, 2000
From: Ed Mahoney ed.mahoney@us.abb.com

Jay,
My daughter and I redid the interior of our 1986 E42, two years ago.

The finish was not in very bad shape, so we were able to save a lot of work by using the same finishes as used by Endeavour.

According to my owners manual, the Satin was Interlux 60 Rubbed Effect, and the Gloss was Interlux 90 Both are Varnishes.

The flooring was easy, in my 42, I was able to remove the teak and Holly, and take it home to sand and refinish. I sanded it with 200 wet and dry and a palm sander, wiped it with tack cloth, and refinished. The little one, 11, had the patience to brush on the varnish, and it came out great.

For the rest of the project, we hand sanded with the 200 grit, and steel wool, and then brushed on the rubbed effect varnish.

Total time about 80 hours labor for three coats with steel wool in between each coat. We did not experience any lifting or orange pealing, also I am sure that except for a few dings, we did not reach bare wood.

For the few dings, we sanded them with 60 grit, filled with standard wood putty, which we color matched as best we could, and then sanded smooth with 200 grit.

It looks good to us.

I originally thought about using some of the two part products, but a few years ago, I had varnish on the exterior wood when new, after 10 years, I could not handle the maintenance, so I wanted to try POLY. The problem was I could just not get the Varnish out of the pores, and the poly kept lifting, I finally ended up sanding the Teak with 120 grit and a palm sander, and then applying Sikkens, CETOL. This has worked well with only a touch up each of the past 4 years.

Date: March 8, 2000
From: Pete Doddato lapdog@olsusa.com

I wouldn't use anything but Cetol on the exterior teak. It lasts forever in our scorching hot Florida sun. It has a reddish tint to it that some don't like but that is what helps it last so long.

Date: March 8, 2000
From: Donna Cass bacchus42@earthlink.net

On refinishing your interior teak, although our 42 Endeavour is newer, 1986, I believe that Endeavour used the same products if they were tried and true on all of their boats. Our original manual lists all providers of services or products utilized on our boat. International Paint , Interlux varnish #60 - hand rubbed interior was used on the interior and Sealer #X9297 was used to seal all varnished areas, interior and exterior. Varnish #90 for the cabin sole. In the near future, we will be refinishing some areas of the interior of our boat and wish to retain the same look throughout and will try these finishes. I realize that there are some newer products available on the market and we will make use of those for the exterior and most likely a newer product for the floor. I am not fond of varnish per se, especially on the interior floor. Good luck. It is a lot of work but worth while!!!

Date: March 8, 2000
From: Don Freeman DNFSirius@aol.com

On the 43, we have replaced all teak veneers that underlie portlights, having replaced all of them, too. We sealed inside non-teak with epoxy, then coated edges, and finished the teak surface with combo of varnish and urethane for proper tone. Also built up contact surface between cabin side and teak veneer with epoxy to prevent any possibility of leakage. No problems in 6 years. don/Sirius Endeavour about to head north from Titusville to Chesapeake.

Date: March 9, 2000
From: William Gillette William.Gillette@med.va.gov

Cetol is the best product I've found for exterior teak. It does change the color a little, but is far more durable in the Florida sun than other products I tried. It was recommended by Practical Sailor.

Date: July 3, 2000
From: Tom Powers TomPowers@sunnuclear.com

Paul,
I have received a couple inquiries regarding Bristol Finish. I thought you might be able to make the following information available to all owners.

Bristol Finish is manufactured by C-Tech Marine, they can be reached at:

Bristol is a two part acrylic finish. It is similar to the clear-coat used on automobiles. It can be buffed. It can be put on over other finishes, and need not be dry to apply another coat. They state that you can apply as many as five coats in eight hours.

I have used it with great success. Thanks

Date: May 3, 2002
From: Jim Parks RIPTYD97@aol.com

In looking over the several responses to teak refinishing, i did not see anyone using the Smith epoxy/polyurathane finish. On our E40, I have used it for several years and find it remarkable. It lasts for 4 or 5 years in our Mississippi Gulf Coast sun and salt air & water. It is extremely tough and withstands wear. In it's 4th year the teak starts to lighten up and the gloss fades. It is a hassle to put on, but it takes a lot of wear and tear and keeps on looking good. After 5 years, I recoated with the same Smith coating. It's in its 2nd year and still looks great.

Date: September 17, 2002
From: Benavente, Samuel samuel.s.benavente@boeing.com

I bought Bristol Finish and followed the mixing instructions properly. The product was applied with a natural bristle brush. Within a few minutes of applying the product on a small surface, that was properly prepared, the brush began to drag. Additionally, runs were appearing readily. I would use the brush to stroke out the runs, but as the product caused my brush to drag, I would have to stop working that area. I tried applying a lesser amounts of product and the dragging would continue. I'm terribly frustrated because I worked so hard on the preparation to get it right. Please give me some information as to how I can use this product. I have been complimented on my work of other products and know basically how to apply them. This problem has me stumped!

Removing Cetol

Date: May 1, 2000
From: Greg Brazier gbrazier@srclarke.com

I just purchased a highly undermaintained Endeavour 35 and wish to remove the cetol prior to refinishing. Can anybody give me a hint as to what might do the trick, short of sanding?

Date: May 4, 2000
From: Don Gordon Dongordon34@aol.com

I have an endeavour 40 that I just stripped all of the old cetol offf of the bright work and applied four new coats.

I used a product named "stripease" and a paint scrapper to remove the old cetol. once this was removed I lightly sanded the teak with 220 grit sandpaper. I then scrubbed the teak with tri-sodium-phosphate(TSP) to remove the black fungus and mildew. I again lightly sanded the teak with 220 grit sandpaper and applied four coats of cetol. This stripping and sanding sounds like a lot of work but is really not. The most labor intensive part is scrapeing off the old cetol and masking off the teak in preparation for the new cetol. Upon inspection, my wife acknowledged that I did a pretty good job so I guess I passed the test.

Date: May 4, 2000
From: Nancy Armitag nanter@nbnet.nb.ca

Greg:
I know what you mean about the sanding thing! I spent years at that - has to be an easier way.

We have an E42 and it needs some teak work done - here is what I have found.

At Boater's World in Maine (am sure they have many outlets) 1-800-682-2225 they have a Step 1 which is Teak Cleaner for $4.99 and a Step 2 which is Teak Brightener, same price. Both containers are 32oz. The instructions are very clear and sound easy to use. I am yet to give it a try but will be definitely using it. Perhaps this info will be of some help to you. A Marine supplier near you may have the same thing. This company also has several other kits by other manufacturers which advertise no sanding.

They say it cleans stains, weathering and takes the teak back to the original wood prior to being treated with cetol products. Good luck, wish I could have recommended it because I had already tried it.

Date: May 4, 2000
From: Pete Doddato lapdog@olsusa.com

Greg
I have put many layers of cetol on my teak and it doesn't appear to build up like varnish does. I have never had it peel or anything. I sanded everything the first time I did it. It doesn't take much as teak is so soft. I put a new coat on everything every six months or so to keep it looking good. I'm in Florida where the sun is tough on any finish but cetol holds up the best with the least work. Good luck

Date: May 4, 2000
From: Robert Andante ROBERTANDANTE@aol.com

Paul there are a number of Teak Cleaners on the market. Some two part and others one part. I used a product that is acid free and environmentally sound called Amazon's one step Teak Cleaner. It worked very well for me. You wet the area to be worked on plus the fiberglass around the wood put the cleaner on brush if needed, then rinse. Repeat if necessary. I do believe that at least a lite sanding is in order. Practical Sailor has some very good articles on this subject. If you would like I would be happy to forward the dates and article number to you.

Date: May 5, 2000
From: Ferdy Sant ferdysant@aol.com

Greg, I have an E40 and I am working on the wood right now. I have cetol on all my woodwork that needs refinishing. I am sanding it to bare wood with 100 grit paper on a good vibrator sander. It is tedious and fills the paper very fast until you get down to the wood. After you get to bare wood go back over with 220 grit to remove the circular sanding marks left by the sander. I have found the secret to cetal is to use only the UV coat. Don't use the Gloss. It leaves a brittle coating same as varnish, it lasts longer than varnish but can't be touched up if damaged. I am putting 5 coats of the UV coating and it leaves you with a matte or semi gloss finish. I had a hand rail damaged by the jib sheets and I hit it with a brush having the UV finish and the scuff disappeared. In eight or 10 months re-tape, very light sand, you can even use a scotch brite pad, and put on a couple more coats. This will save you a lot of headaches. Good luck, its gorgeous when you get finished.

Refinishing

Date: July 25, 2000
From: Ed Maitz EMAITZ@cs.com

I have a problem that, unfortunately, someone else may had experienced. I have a 15 year old Endeavour that I am in the process of restoring. I stripped all of the old varnish on 30% of the deck (she has a lot of teak!). It looked beautiful. I, apparently stupidly, left the wood unprotected overnight with the intention of putting Armada on the next day. But, by the next morning my beautiful teak was black. I was told that mildew grew on the wood overnight because of dew and moiture in the air. I have had several recommendations for getting the mold out: powerwash it, bleach it out, sand it out. use a two part acid and stabilizer (the brand name of which escapes me). Has anyone had a similar problem and found a solution? Is there any way to protect bare wood overnight so that I don't run into the same problem again? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Date: July 26, 2000
From: John Witanowski jwitanowski@yahoo.com

I have redone the teak on my Endeavour 37, "Obsession" here in Florida. I used a two part system...a bleaching product followed by a stabilizer...the brand name was "TE-KA". I followed up on the teak treatment with some good old fashioned sanding...working my way up to 2000 grit paper. Finally, the wood was coated with Cetol according to the manufacturers instructions. A beautiful job. I really can't believe that your wood turned black overnight...if you treated the wood with a two part system, did you really neutralize the acid portion? Mold just won't grow that fast in a mere 24 hour period.

Date: July 27, 2000
From: "Capn" Mike Miller capnmike_s@yahoo.com

I find it difficult to believe that mildew grew that fast...I have had experiences where the teak reacted with paint stripper or solvent and turned black...rather quickly, too...If it won;t come out with Clorox Bleach, which usually works for me on mildew, I would say you'd have to sand it. Happy Trails and Full Sails.

Date: July 27, 2000
From: Dennis Jones dennisjones@rcsgroup.com

Don't know why your teak turned black overnight. I agree with the other responses that it is probably a reaction to the stripper.

When I bought my boat (1979 E32), the exterior teak had NEVER been finished. I just used a stiff brush and scrubbed it with an oxylic acid solution and rinsed thoroughly. Then I applied 3 coats of Armada. The Armada over the weathered teak produced a beautiful effect.

BTW, I think Armada is a great product. This is the second boat I've used it on. It's more translucent than Cetol and less maintenance than varnish. If it needs a touch up, just scrub it down and brush on another coat.

Date: July 28, 2000
From: Dick Cline DickC7247@aol.com

Ed - In a former life I had an Island Packet and the amount of teak on that makes the amount on the E32 look small! In the IP owners manual then and still, they suggest to get the mildew out and keep it out to use Wisk laundry soap. Get the gallon jug, pour small amounts out onto the teak, give it a minute or so to soak down into the wood, then get a nice scrub brush and scrub away for a little. Rinse it off, and when it dries mine is a nice gold color. Mind you - my E32 teak had not been touched for over a decade so it took some power sanding to get the gunk off so that I could tell it was teak under there, but the Wisk trick worked just fine, and the bare wood did not regrow any mold in the past month. With the boat being in Pensacola, FL and the summer that we have had, it sure should have grown in that amount of time if it was going to do so. I'm going to put Cetol on it when the temp gets back in the range they say you can apply it - but the heat index daily of over 115 degrees is beyond both the Cetol and my limit! Hope this helps.

Date: August 7, 2000
From: Rex Crawford Sockhat1@aol.com

Never finished teak decks but I used a two part Te-Ka system on my exterior teak. Worked great. Not sure about overnight mildew or mold. The te-ka should take care of your problem but you may have to do your deck in sections. Only clean what you can apply your new finish to in one day. I used honey teak on my hand rails and other exterior teak and would highly recommend it so far but only time will tell. Good luck.

Date: August 20, 2000
From: Michael Gendel mgendel@worldnet.att.net

Armada users,
Did you use the new MC2000? It only comes in the small pint size? If you go into Boat US and ask for Armada, that is what they give you. It is not very user friendly to use but it has some terriffic claims. The old or regular or orginial or traditional Armada is sold under some Boat US name and comes in quarts not pints. The boat US employees do not seem to know that this is an Armada product. I understand it is more user friendly to use. I wound up with MC2000. It is now on my grab rails and hatch board keepers. I hope the claims are true for all the heck I went through w/ the stuff. Of course to get a match, now I will have to use it on my teak cap rail trims. By the way, I called Armada, and the young women I spoke with was rather insensitive.

R E P L Y