Repairing nonskid
Date: September 4, 2000
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
Does anyone know where you can find the "non-skid texture mold" for the E32? I've heard that there is a way to obtain it.
Date: Monday, September 4, 2000
From: Mike Miller capnmike@coqui.net
Ask your dentist to sell you a couple of cans of mold-impression powder...you mix it with water and spread it over an undamaged part of the nonskid, and when it hardens, presto! A mold! The stuff is also great for restoration molds on fancy things like picture frames, etc....and is about $10 a can.
Date: September 4, 2000
From: Kevin Coon kkcoon@worldnet.att.net
You can make your own mold from your own nonskid. The procedure is laid out in a book called "Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual" by George Vaitses. This is a great book even if you don't need to do this job. I have not had the need to try it yet. It involves using some kind of release material on a piece of your nonskid and applying fiberglass to the nonskid. When it dries, you remove it and have a mold. The idea of putting fiberglass on my deck scares me , though. Have fun!
Date: September 4, 2000
From: Bruce Bonbright Hale-Moana@worldnet.att.net
Paul, I've read that you can create your own by using an area of good non skid as a mold. I believe that you first apply a liberal amount of gel mold release to the good non skid area and then apply some resin. Let it dry and peel off the resin. This is your mold. Hope the idea works.
Date: September 5, 2000
From: Tom Powers TomPowers@sunnuclear.com
Paul,
Most people that I know make them from good areas of the existing deck. They make a latex mould by painting onto the current deck and peeling it up when dry.. Some people attach it to a rigid surface ( thin plywood) or they just place the plywood over the mould when they use it.
I am sure someone out there can give you a detailed recipe for this procedure.
Date: September 8, 2000
From: Carl Hibbard Chgypsy@aol.com
On a Catalina which uses a diamond pattern (sort of ) and may be easier than the Endeavour squigle. We used liquid vinyl poured over a very clean portion of good gel coat non-skid. Used a waxed cardboard box as a holder, this gave us about a foot square piece of pattern. Which was repeatedly laid out on fresh gel coat, the pain was the lining up.
Date: March 5, 2001
From: Jay Call jaycall@mediaone.net
Anyone have experience and/or advice regarding the best methods/horror stories/things to avoid when renewing the original non-skid on a '78 E-32? Mine is peeling up in some spots, cracked (just the surface, not the underlying molding), and needs attention. Thanks in advance.
Date: March 6, 2001
From: Jay Call jaycall@mediaone.net
I'm wondering if my boat has the same type of non-skid as yours. On mine, the pattern molded into the deck doesn't really provide much non-skid; rather, it looks like it was intended merely to provide a surface to which the non-skid coating adheres. The actual non-skid surface appears to be thickened polyester (built up maybe 1/16") with a very high grit content which completely covers and smooths out the molded pattern. The polyester is then painted over with a beige-colored paint.
At any rate, the polyester coating is now flaking off--it simply no longer adheres to the pattern molded into the deck in many places (maybe it was epoxy, and has degraded over time). Really looks tacky, and not at all consistent with my new bronze ports. There's a guy out here in Channel Islands who's a real genius at boat finishing (used to do it professionally, but no longer)--I've seen his work and met him, but he's hard to track down. Anyway, when I find him, I'm going to ask him to take a look at my deck and give me his recommendations. If your deck is like mine, you might be interested in what he has to say.
Date: March 07, 2001
From: Paul Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
Jay,
Search Practical Sailor at:
www.practical-sailor.com
I found a number of articles, one of which reviews different types of applied deck surfaces. Use the search words: "gelcoat" and "nonskid". Here's one that I found:
Vetus, Simpson Lawrence Best Of The Nonskid Add-Ons
Anyone who has spent time on a number of boats knows that there are usually some spots that could use some form of nonskid protection. Some manufacturers, it seems, take the minimalist approach. There are always, of course, those boat owners who put molded-in nonskid over virtually every exposed surface, including places you’re not likely to tread
One of the most common areas where nonskid would be welcome is on the side decks where one steps onto the boat. There are several approaches to adding nonskid to your boat, as we discussed in a June 1, 1990 report. Among the options are two-part epoxy paints mixed with non-skid particles such as Griptex Nonskid Particles from U.S. Paint
Date: March 7, 2001
From: Jay Call jaycall@mediaone.net
Paul,
Here's the (immediate) response I received from Practical Sailor Magazine.
You may want to include it in the group discussion:
Hi Jay --
You wrote at the right time. Here's an exchange that will appear in our April 1st issue (I've just copied it out of our PageMaker file.) Hope it helps:
Non-Skid Decks
There seems to be lots of information available about painting topsides and bottoms, but I am unable to find anything about painting non-skid decks. Our 1982 Pearson Flyer has a very elegant, basket-weave pattern of non-skid all over the exterior deck. Although most of it is in excellent condition, there are areas that could use sprucing up, especially around the stanchion bases where there are many stress cracks. Do you know of any product that will cover and protect the surface without filling in the texture to the point of losing its non-skidding effect? I am aware that two-part polyurethanes are much more durable than one-part paints so they would certainly be to my advantage in terms of durability, but I’m not sure if the high gloss would be appropriate. Please tell me what you think.
Response:
As a first step, read The Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual by Allan Vaitses (International Marine/McGraw-Hill), which addresses your problem in detail. One of the first things he’ll tell you is that stress cracks are trying to tell you something, i.e. the laminate is flexing and that there is no point fixing the cracks without stiffening the laminate first. In any case, if your principal intent is to “fix” gelcoat crazing, the cracks must be opened up and filled with resin mixed with a suitable filler powder. Then you can paint. If the old molded-in gelcoat nonskid pattern is still good and not worn smooth, you can simply paint with two-part polyurethane paint, using an additive (sold by paint companies) to knock off the gloss (doesn’t hurt longevity but dulls the surface and may make it less slippery).
If, on the other hand, your nonskid has worn, then you must do one of two things: repaint the decks with a granular additive or cover the decks with a pad such as Treadmaster. We have written about both methods at various times over the years. Basically, you can either buy non-skid paints with the granules already added or you can paint the deck first and then sprinkle granules onto the wet surface. The difficulty in applying paint pre-mixed with granules is in maintaining uniform disbursement because they tend to load up on the brush or roller. Sprinkling on evenly after painting also requires some skill in getting uniform distribution of the granules. If you choose either of those methods, you’d be well-advised to PRACTICE first.
Serviceable results can be had by an amateur but it’s doubtful the deck will look like a new boat. Gluing down pads cut to fill designated non-skid areas will probably look more professional, but change the look of the boat. Some European boats come with products such Treadmaster straight from the factory, so while a bit unusual here, it’s certainly an acceptable practice.
Lastly, you can re-gelcoat, using surrounding non-skid as a pattern, but that is another matter.
Jay, for what it's worth, we also recently had a letter from a reader who recommends..."Valspar, Skid Resistant, Interior/Ext. Coating, Medium Base, Fast Drying, Soap & Water Clean-up, Gas & Oil Resistant. The paint is designed for use around pools, tennis courts, porches, handicap ramps, basement steps, on concrete and wood. It has a built in non-skid of crystaline silica. It comes in a variety of colors, mostly darker ones... It was an experiment on fiberglass... it worked and great! Application was done by brush, but might be better with a roller. It is very fast drying and covers very well. Very thick stuff. I believe since it is designed for around pools and their chemicals it will hold up well in the marine environment...It doesn't seem to erode much with deck cleaning and brushing. Cost: Not like Durabak $120/gal., but rather $12/quart or $22/gal. Plus it works great for deck shoes, street shoes, tennies and bare feet. Not hard on the knees, gets alittle dirty but I'd rather stay aboard or not slip around the deck, than worry about some minor dirt coloration!"
It sounds as if the Valspar colors are limited, and that you might get too "industrial" a look that way. Good luck, best wishes
Douglas Logan
Practical Sailor
Date: March 8, 2001
From: Jay Call jaycall@mediaone.net
Paul,
Thanks for the tip. The Don Casey article was particularly useful. Here's a message I got from Jerry Powlas at Good Old Boat Magazine that's a pretty complete answer:
Hi Jay,
I have to do a little guess work on this one.
Guess One
Your resin / sand nonskid was polyester resin. or
Guess Two
It was epoxy resin, but had no UV protection
In the guess one scenario, the polyester did not stick all that well to the gelcoat substrate. I've been told that polyester resin does not stick to a polyester resin substrate as well as epoxy resin does. (There is not universal agreement on this point.)
In the guess two scenario the epoxy resin / sand mixture was destroyed by UV radiation. Un protected epoxy will act the way you describe, eventually leaving just the sand. This takes a good long time, but will happen.
In either case you have to get the old stuff off. Then you have to clean the surface you are going to put the new (epoxy) resin / sand onto. Start with a strong wax remover and move on to a solvent cleaner recommended by the epoxy supplier. Acetone may not be first choice here because only reagent grade is certain to be oil free.
Clean before you sand, so you don't sand the wax and other impurities into the substrate. After cleaning, sand with a rough paper like 60 grit. Vacuum up the dust. Mask the area to be worked, and apply just the epoxy in a fairly thin coating. Shake dry sand over the area. Put enough dry sand on to be certain that some will need to be swept away when the epoxy cures. It is not possible to put on too much sand unless you have put on too mucy epoxy. When the epoxy cures and is still green, you can remove the loose sand and put on a very thin layer over the first, (or skip that step). You don't want to fill the sand level of course.
After the epoxy / sand cures completely, wash the area with water to remove the amine blush, and when dry apply a paint over all. The paint must be thin enough to allow the sand to still be rough, but thick enough to give some UV protection. Repaint as necessary to protect the resin.
Now here is the tricky part. Not all paints work with all epoxies. The epoxy will inhibit the cure of some paints. So I recommend this: Start with a practice sheet of plywood. Work out the process, including testing the paint to see that it cures. Of course, you can talk to the epoxy vendor and paint vendor to try to get a combination that will.
I've put Interlux Brightsides over West System, and had no problem. But... I was painting my topsides and so used a primer. You don't want to use a primer in this project because it just fills in around the sand. You have to do a little investigating.
By the way, I've never done a deck like I just described, but I have used the process below in the cabin where no UV paint protection was needed. The coating certainly has been durable over teak. My sailors used to do a version of this process using plain old enamel paint on steel and aluminum decks on my ship. (well.., it was not exactly mine, it belonged to the tax payers). Even the enamel on steel held up pretty well considering the traffic.
The most difficult part is going to be getting the old coating off. After you do, make a little test patch of epoxy to make sure all these plastics and goops will get along and stick to each other. There is so much wax in the gel-coat of my rudder (aftermarket repair part) that epoxy will not stick to it AT ALL.
If all the plastics get along, the key is to use the paint to protect the epoxy from the UV.
If you do this let us know how it turns out.
Jerry Powlas
Technical Editor, Good Old Boat magazine
